Cissokho is dog muck but losses will never be pinned on him to the same extent they're put on to Allen.
I like Allen and think he is a very useful player. He wont be a playing to start every game or be first name on the team sheet but he is a useful type of player to have. He helps us keep the ball, keep it moving and control the game. Bring him on in a game when we are 2 goals up but tiring and he will help us to keep things ticking and see the game out. I think players of his style show there best at around 26-32 years old. Allens best days are ahead of him.
I really dislike this attitude towards Allen (no offense to you, but the majority of people say the same thing too) and similar type players. If any midfielder earning over f**king 30k a week (more than most here earn in a year probably) can't pass the ball around and keep it moving, they should be kicked out the damn club. Useless wastes of space. I'm sorry for having minimum expectations of a professional football in that they can keep hold of the ball and pass it aimlessly around our half of the pitch as well as doing something else useful. I think Allen has absolutely nothing else in his locker and should be sold the second someone else comes along who can do something better. Tex came on the other week, kept the ball moving and made one or two forward passes never mind looking up for a decent shot. He showed just as much if not more than Allen in that little 15m cameo.
And that's the point, each player should have a purpose in the squad. When Allen was bought I firmly believe BR didn't rate Hendo, had a more rigid idea of how he wanted our midfield to play and knew that Allen understood it and at that point had the possibility of improvement through age. Roll on to present, BR while still attached to his original ideas is more pragmatic with the players he has rather than the players he wants. Hendo has worked hard, proved BR wrong (which he seems happy to have happen) and defined one of the midfield roles as his own. Coutinho is fast becoming a better version of the role BR originally saw Allen taking on. Another role gone. Gerrard is doing the same thing (establishing a different role for himself at HM) yet again to the point that even Lucas might find himself in the same position as Allen: a filler, a back up. So Allen has no role that will be his so any further development will be stunted. When we are continually fighting for the title and CL I'll question why Allen is still one of our squad players as I would assume the quality of the squad should have been raised to closer to the standard of Suarez than Allen. Until then, other than he doesn't appear to be worth what we paid for him I don't understand the venom spat in his direction. Plans change, ideas don't work, team moves in an unexpected direction. He is a perfectly capable squad player for the time being, if it makes people happier, pretend we paid 8 million for Allen and 15 for Coutinho. Same money actually spent and we still got one rising classy star and one very capable squad player.
You can have fillers, United have had title winning teams with fillers for years now, but when you end up with a bench full of fillers, you're screwed when plan A doesn't work. Allen's ok at doing standard stuff, but he's not going to impact off the bench. It's not so much venom being spat at him, it's just questioning why people's defense of him is what I consider to be a minimum standard for any midfielder we should be looking to buy. And that's not good enough, in my eyes.
People don't appreciate Allen in terms of his off the ball qualities - his positioning, movement and constant pressing is very good. And he has played some blinding passes at times but people tend to ignore those. Not saying he's the answer and we can definitely do better but he;s not as bad as some fans make out.
That wasn't really directed at you Two, and I don't blame people for not rating a player for whatever reason. Some on here think Gerards past it, others don't rate Skerts or Agger. My personal punching bag is Glen. I have a soft spot for people like Lucas, Allen, Flannigan etc who keep their mouths shut and work hard hoping that if they do their very best they'll be good enough to belong in a first class team. You are right, they are bringing what we should consider the bare minimum for a top flight pro but I'd rather have them filling the team than players with more natural ability who think they've made it and just coast while talking the talk of a great player....Johnson, Downing Moses, etc etc.
Allen did better yesterday than Hendo did at Fulham and WBA IMO. Hendo serves plan A perfectly as we rampage through teams with our pace, power, grit, quick one touch football. But when we need to switch to plan B against a packed, resilient and organized defence, Hendo's inferior ball control, lateral movement, patient pass and attacking intelligence may cost us. Allen IMO is a superior option to Hendo in such situations.
allen was bought before rodgers learned just what it took to succeed at the top. he and borini were both familiar players he could get that he knew would do something in his system. He learned quickly about the quality required... but should have known form chelsea training what quality is. Allen is not a top 4 player and never will be. he's just not that good... so i don't know why people seek to blame him nor praise him. he is what he is. a player filling in until something better comes along. oh and his injury record is now very poor so i just don't get the love in. average player... shrugs..
Allen is ok. He does a lot of simple things very well. Probably never be a dynamic game changer but a good squad player. At least BR can't be accused of favouring him now.
How can you compare the two? Henderson is our box to box endless runner while Joe Allen is the keep it tidy and pass it midfielder. The thing with Joe Allen is he does nothing, I cannot rate him against Arsenal as I don't remember anything of note. The last thing I remember of him is the miss he did against Everton.
Bored of the crap that Joe Allen gets from 90% of people on here. There is more to football than doing 20 step overs or hitting 60 yard passes out of play like Gerrard does most games. Yes he's never going to be World player of the year, but he has a certain set of attributes and a style which at the age of 23 (I think) he won't get near his prime for another 10 years. Give him a few seasons and he'll be a very good prem player who has certain role in the team and performs it well.
If we listened to the fans who say X isn't good enough then we would've lost Henderson, Sterling, Lucas, Skrtel & Flanagan in the last couple of years. Allen has been really unfortunate with injuries, he started picking up some momentum in December then he got injured & Gerrard, Coutinho + Henderson played so well in his absence they are undroppable at the moment.
They are CMs and comparable by ommission or necessity if you will. If Rodgers has decided on SASAS and his two other midfielders CAM and DM, he's left with the choice: Hendo or Allen? When we go on full out blistering attack and exploit spaces (which we manage to do excellently at home), the pick should be Henderson for his endless covering, pace, power, quick pass and run. When we come to a standstill against a resilient defence, we have often struggled for cohesion in attack. See our lacklustre performance in our defeat at Hull, draw at WBA or fortunate win at Fulham. Could we done better and created more chances in such games with Allen instead of Hendo in CM?
Well said. His off the ball contribution is massive and better than Gerrards. Gerrard on the ball is obviously better. We need to find players who have both attributes.
so all the criticism of allen is unfair as he will be a good player maybe in a few years time? need to worry about now, and i don't see what he brings personally, we have players like Alberto and wisdom,llori etc for a few years time, are we saying allen is on the same level as them? exactly, should be ahead, he isnt good enough. everyone is entitled to their opinion, but all you allen fans cant keep saying your fed up of the criticism and then say give allen a few years! what does that tell you? £15 mill is a lot to spend on a player and use the excuse give him a couple of years, that price, should be having an impact now. i have questioned the logic of what we spent on Llori, but thats half of what allen cost, we had chelseas finances and could send everyone out on loan great, allen could eventually be useful, sadly we dont have that luxury and he needs to impose himself now not couple of years time.
i will bet any one of you whatever that joe allen will not be a good player in a few year, he'll still be that same type of player. i just think there nothing wrong with being average, just hat average doesn't cut it at the to p4 level we are trying for. If he could sustain a level and not get injured that'd be one thing you could then rely on him to be a sub but right now he's not doing that. its not his fault we win or lose but for me must replace, must do better.
I don't fit in with this good vs bad player debating. I judge a player on their performance at the time. If Allen plays well, he will get my praise. If he plays poorly he will be criticised. If he has a average game I won't make him a scapegoat, its just a off day where things didn't go right for him. I apply this logic to all players. You only have to look at my comments about Skrtel over the last few years to see that! I have also criticsed Sterling, Henderson (although I always backed him to improve), Cissokho, Sturridge, etc who have all improved and got plenty of praise from me too (well, maybe not plenty for Cissokho... yet).
