1. Log in now to remove adverts - no adverts at all to registered members!

Winning isn't important to Spurs - they just care about money! - Juande Ramos

Discussion in 'Tottenham Hotspur' started by KingHotspur, Feb 14, 2014.

  1. PowerSpurs

    PowerSpurs Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2011
    Messages:
    13,086
    Likes Received:
    5,667
    Spurs had never finished in the top 5 four years running prior to ENIC except once under Bill Nicholson in the 60s!

    Our average position under Bill was 6th. Back then we probably had more money than most other clubs. Under ENIC we are doing slightly better than you would expect us to do. Levy does sack the manager too often though - but then so does everyone.
     
    #41
  2. Boss

    Boss Son of Pulis

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2011
    Messages:
    8,849
    Likes Received:
    215
    Levys main problem, for me, is he trusts the wrong people. When he sacked Jol and Redknapp, I expect on both occasions he gained advice from different sources.

    Who advised him Ramos was a special manager?

    Then when he hired Avb, I'm pretty sure David Pleat played a role in advising.

    Now he has someone on his ear saying to hire Van Gaal.

    Then when Sherwood is sacked and Van Gaal fails there will be another trusted source.

    . If I was a chairman I would be embarrassed if I had to keep asking people for advice and that's why I believe Levy should remain in control of the business model but step down as chairman and employ a chief executive like David Gill was at utd.

    This Dof nonsense isn't working and never will. It's failed too often to keep trying to make it succeed, when our best period came through continuity and an old fashioned method with a British manager and head scout.
     
    #42
  3. PowerSpurs

    PowerSpurs Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2011
    Messages:
    13,086
    Likes Received:
    5,667
    Running any big business is complex and the more advice you take the better. I think my view is that most managers make little difference, perhaps 1 in 20 are likely to have real insights that matter and another 1 in 20 might be totally incompetent. You should try to find one of the former, but its hard to tell when you've got one so you need to give your manager more time as a default unless you're pretty sure you've got one of the latter or something has led you to lose confidence.

    I don't agree at all on the DoF. One of the reasons Harry did well was because he inherited a good squad put together by the preceding DoFs. The manager's job as defined the British way is just too hard. Splitting it up has to be right.
     
    #43
  4. The RDBD

    The RDBD Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2011
    Messages:
    29,118
    Likes Received:
    13,898
    "Spurs had never finished in the top 5 four years running prior to ENIC except once under Bill Nicholson in the 60s!

    Our average position under Bill was 6th. Back then we probably had more money than most other clubs."

    Spurs average league position, from return to Div 1 to near bankruptcy under Scholar, was 7-8th.
    Recent times (bar the silverware) do resemble the 80s. Higher league placings, with managers inheriting
    the core of a squad constructed under the time of their predecessor(s) . The odd title challenge dream.


    "Under ENIC we are doing slightly better than you would expect us to do."

    For the squads Spurs have had in recent times, IMHO they are under-performing a bit.
    More so when you consider the margin of failure to get a CL slot has been 1-2 pts for the
    past two seasons.
     
    #44
  5. Boss

    Boss Son of Pulis

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2011
    Messages:
    8,849
    Likes Received:
    215
    It's more the fact that it seems there is a constant change of advice, it's not so much Levy, more who he trusts, that's what concerns me.

    If a Dofs job is to find talent, get sacked and then a manager comes in, works without interference and gets success then Ok, but that's not how it's meant to work. A Dof who's successful is meant to remain at the club and work with the manager and build a balanced squad without meddling. That hasn't happened yet and rarely does in this country.
     
    #45
  6. PowerSpurs

    PowerSpurs Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2011
    Messages:
    13,086
    Likes Received:
    5,667
    In my view the fact that we've got a competitive squad is down to ENIC - we should really only have the sixth best one based on resources. We were always the weakest member of the pre-Sky 'big five' although we are now ahead of Everton but Man City and Chelsea have gone past due to weight of money.

    Harry definitely under-performed with the squad he had in his last two years. I'd say AVB and Sherwood have slightly over-performed in last and the current season
     
    #46

  7. Boss

    Boss Son of Pulis

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2011
    Messages:
    8,849
    Likes Received:
    215
    Redknapp over performed as he took us to the champions league and in his final season when we had a great first team, Levy wouldn't strengthen and Redknapp had to practically beg to sign Parker.
     
    #47
  8. The RDBD

    The RDBD Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2011
    Messages:
    29,118
    Likes Received:
    13,898
    "In my view the fact that we've got a competitive squad is down to ENIC"

    That is down to those who resourced the talent, and managed them.
    The fact that Spurs have managed to build and retain the core of those squads on the
    transfer/wage budgets available, is down to Levy.

    The question is how many extra 10s of millions per season does the club require each
    year to permanently push out another of the Sky 4 from the CL piggie trough.

    The Goons need continual CL revenue and then some, just to service the difference in
    their wage bill to Spurs. And even then, they have had to go down to the last day of the
    PL season 4 times in 8 seasons to avoid finishing below us.
     
    #48
  9. PleaseNotPoll

    PleaseNotPoll Well-Known Member Forum Moderator

    Joined:
    May 31, 2011
    Messages:
    96,307
    Likes Received:
    55,788
    Redknapp rarely used the squad available to him, though.
    Asking for more players when you won't use the ones that you've got is never going to go well, especially with Levy.
    Squad management was never his strong suit.
     
    #49
  10. Sidney Fiddler

    Sidney Fiddler Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2011
    Messages:
    1,242
    Likes Received:
    283
    Redknapp did brilliantly considering the constraints ENIV/Levy imposed on him.
     
    #50
  11. The RDBD

    The RDBD Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2011
    Messages:
    29,118
    Likes Received:
    13,898
    "Asking for more players when you won't use the ones that you've got is never going to go well, especially with Levy.
    Squad management was never his strong suit."

    IMHO Arry inadvertently made a rod for his own back in 2010.
    Specifically the notion that Levy could expect same/more from that squad.

    In 2010-11, Arry could rightly claim the demands of PL + UEFA business end was too much
    for his squad. But in 2011-12, that excuse was gone given that P11 W10 D1 sequence and
    having ditched the Europa before the new year.
     
    #51
  12. The RDBD

    The RDBD Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2011
    Messages:
    29,118
    Likes Received:
    13,898
    "A Dof who's successful is meant to remain at the club and work with the manager and build a balanced squad without meddling.
    That hasn't happened yet and rarely does in this country."

    Do you contend that AVB was given the wrong players this summer to replace/strengthen his squad ??
    Or that the way Spurs played prior to his sacking was inevitable once Bale had departed ??
     
    #52
  13. PleaseNotPoll

    PleaseNotPoll Well-Known Member Forum Moderator

    Joined:
    May 31, 2011
    Messages:
    96,307
    Likes Received:
    55,788
    I'd say that a bit of both was probably true. Villas-Boas seemed desperate to sign a creative midfielder, with Moutinho and Pjanic appearing to be his main targets.
    He mismanaged the squad that he had though, leaving us short up front, barely covering left-back and overloaded with attacking midfielders.
     
    #53
  14. Boss

    Boss Son of Pulis

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2011
    Messages:
    8,849
    Likes Received:
    215
    I get that view but I keep hearing Crouch, Lennon, Gomes Hudd Defoe and co where crap! Yet Redknapp got us champions league with such players and once we got Champions league football, I don't believe Levy gave Redknapp much chance to strengthen. We signed Vdv, great but overall we made a poor attempt at trying to sustain champions league football in terms of backing the manager.
     
    #54
  15. The RDBD

    The RDBD Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2011
    Messages:
    29,118
    Likes Received:
    13,898
    Allegedly a bit of negotiating <standard> over Moutinho in summer 2012, was one of the
    reasons that Baldini was hired.
     
    #55
  16. Boss

    Boss Son of Pulis

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2011
    Messages:
    8,849
    Likes Received:
    215
    It's a difficult one as Avb IMO was a 'yes man' . Would Redknapp sat back and allowed players to arrive he never wanted? I doubt it.

    So yes. Avb wasn't given a balanced squad, but I place blame at him as much as Baldini as if Avb never wanted a player, he just had to speak up and be forceful and passionate about his case.

    Levy isn't going to sign a player if the manager truly doesn't want them and puts up a fight.
     
    #56
  17. Remember what Coco Benitez did when 'Pool's bankrupt owners forced our own Robbie "I've always dreamed of playing for 'Pool" Keane on them?

    Yes, that's right. Coco simply refused to play him.

    Levy, having embarrassed Spurs by failing to find a replacement for either Keane or Berbatov, took him back at a discount.
     
    #57
  18. PleaseNotPoll

    PleaseNotPoll Well-Known Member Forum Moderator

    Joined:
    May 31, 2011
    Messages:
    96,307
    Likes Received:
    55,788
    Benitez wanted Keane. He played him in 28 competitive games in the half a season that he was at Liverpool.
     
    #58
  19. Look, PNP, what have I told you! If you are going to let facts get in the way, how on earth am I going to wum?

    Try to see it from my point of view.
     
    #59
  20. KingHotspur

    KingHotspur Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 11, 2011
    Messages:
    25,239
    Likes Received:
    31,447

Share This Page