After the long run of success under Fergie , United NOT winning is a bigger story than if they steamrollered their way to another title or cup. The media are covering their back pages with stories of UTD being not very good atm , they'll turn on Moyes in good time. It's what the British press do best.
It's much stranger than I can comprehend, like you have done mate, I could pick it to bits but I always end up back at the staff clear out. I bet Moyes regrets that every waking hour, clearing out Phelan and Meulensteen was a disaster, and I cannot for one second fathom why he thinks the likes of Vidic, Carrick, Rooney, RVP would even begin to listen to Phillip Neville in training. That really annoys me but it gives me enough ammo to offer no sympathy at all to Moyes if and when he gets fired. I also think it helps Fergie justify it as well. I'd have Phelan in alongside whoever it is and I'd have McClaren back as well, maybe (definitely) not as manager but for me, he's one of, if not the best coach in this country.
McClaren is proving himself, again, and he's proving himself playing some ****ing good football. Clough did do some fantastic groundwork at Derby, but as you allude to, McClaren is, and always has been a top class coach, it's more a case that he lacks a certain authority & personality to be a top manager. I think with the removal of the backroom staff, this was a fatal error, he had 2 options 'Fergie clone' and the one he's gone in with a 'I'm not Fergie' approach and went his own way. Choosing to NOT rty and copy, or stay as close to as possible to the most successful manager in history, well, it's stupidy personified. The smart move would have been on doing everything in his power to be a clone of Sir Alex.
My guess is based on a story that King Kev walked because he spat his dummy out because he wasn't allowed to bid for Thierry Henry and David Beckham. Kevin Keegan won a constructive dismissal claim against Ashley because of Dennis Wise meddling in club affairs, Kevin Keegan was looking for a way out all along. You fans should have backed your owner, attack Wise by all accounts if it was his fault, like you did to Joe Kinnear, and look...he got fired! You attacked the person that (Due diligence or not) saved you from being the next Portsmouth and he's making you all pay for it. To suggest he wants to break even and get his money back then he'll up and off, that's deluded. He's not going anywhere when he's got his money back, why would he? He doesn't owe you that. He can feed you scraps for the rest of his life if he wants and rake in money from your club. He probably made a clean 1bn in 2012/13 financial year, in the grand scheme of things he's probably twice as rich as he was when he bought NUFC and you think he's pissing about for a hundred million quid, he could liquidate you now and get that no problem, call in his debt to be repaid. He's in for the long haul and he's loving it, until you stop calling him a fat cockney ****er, he'll never get bored, he holds EVERY single card in the deck and thanks to Sky's new influx of money he probably wouldn't give a **** if the stadium was empty either. It's unfathomable behaviour from your so called supporters if your objective is to get him to sell up, can you not agree with that?
I think his only defence is that he didn't see the possibility of Arsenal and Liverpool improving so much in just one summer, had he had the foresight to see this season unfolding as it has for Arsenal and Liverpool I think he'd have took a few more risks in the market last summer. I think Arsenal will drop off now they have a horrid fixture list and they like to end their season in March, but Liverpool don't look like letting up, they're offering the challenge that Moyes probably thought would come from Spurs' direction. Our objective was probably never to win the league this season, so maybe he thought it was a safe season for him to just have a look at what he's got. Either way, backfired is an understatement... poor bastard!
I think the problem Terry, and it's not an easy fix, is that the squad is significantly weaker, not only than Chelsea & City, but than Arsenal & Spurs, arguably Liverpool. Everyone, not just last season, but the last 2, the loss to City on goal difference, well in reality City should have cantered that season, everyone knew it was the 'Fergie effect', and as it's my belief that Moyes would have known he was going in there with a good portion of the season AND the full summer to work with, then he should have had 4 or 5 targets that he insisted were brought in BEFORE a ball was kicked. You go through that United squad and say, 'how many are United players?'. I'm excluding Giggs as that's a special case, I see only Rooney, Van Persie, Chicarito & De Gea, with Januzaj coming out of nowhere. Moyes had to see that, he had to see it before he went in, and he had to have plans in place to start putting that right. He didn't.
Under Fergie they were all United players...well maybe not Bebe or Anderson, you know what I mean though. He utilised them and gave them the best training they'd need, to be a success. Some people will reel off conspiracy theories but ultimately we had to put the ball in the net, and stop it going in ours, Fergie couldn't control that...much The problem is, we've had injuries and suspensions which hasn't helped but more importantly, they've just not looked interested. These players are good enough to be winning games consistently at this level, they should be ripping Fulham to pieces but they're just void of creativity. Signing Mata proved that, the most creative person in the league before Jose returned and he can't do **** under Moyes. I'm under no illusions mate, Moyes needs to change his approach there's no way it will work under his current way of thinking. I guess a winner would have commanded respect from the players who would have bought into a brand new philosophy.
Don't get me wrong. As things stand, with the model we run, we are an excellent cash cow for him. From a business stand point, I actually admire the guy. As a fan, at the other end of the deal though...... Not so much . MA would not liquidate the club purely for the fact he has got it run in this way. It is worth more this way and to then sell on for a profit. He made a grave mistake buying us, he wants to make money and sell on. For a profit of course. No business man will just let his business liquidate in order to recoup. It is not in his DNA to do that. Another thing, and perhaps in this instance I might be well off the mark, I don't think MA actually cares about what we say, do or think. He never has done in the past with other business dealings so no reason why this would be any different. His ego (billionaires probably have the biggest egos going) has taken a hit. This is a guy who never fails but is failing big time and in the public domain.
Fair do's you know him better than I do mate. I just can't understand how a fan base can advocate consistent abuse to a man they want favours from. Other than the Rangers link, I think he'll probably stick around as long as he wants at Newcastle, he doesn't give a **** what you lot think, that's exactly right so there's no point berating his lack of ambition and hoping he sells up and ****s off. If he sells to a dogs dinner of an owner like them nuggets that had Liverpool, what's plan C? Seems to me that you need to build a few more bridges in Tyneside, first step is to have a respectable link between true fans and board - currently you have a very sad man called Steve Wraith who seems to shout loudest, no wonder Ashley doesn't wanna talk to that human valium.
100% Agree with you there. That guy belongs in a mental asylum. There is nobody in this world that I hate however I think he is very close. Sorry for derailing this thread guys.
Do you think that Mata was an afterthought to missing out on Ozil? Maybe Moyes whole idea hinged on the signing of a specific creative midfielder, which has drove him to Mata, which looked inconceivable at the time of the Ozil deal. Between then and now, Moyes has come under pressure, and the bit of freedom, bravery, willingness to take a chance needed to best use a player like Ozil or Mata isn't there. Unquestionably, before a ball was kicked if United had signed Fellaini & Ozil, the whole of Europe would have went 'aye, that'll do it'. Defensive issues can be swept away if your front 6 are clicking, who'd have cared about the failings of the defense if you had Fellaini, Ozil, Rooney & RVP firing? The defence wouldn't have been so battle weary as 98% of games would have been sent sending wave after wave of attack against deep lying defences ****ting themselves. The Ozil deal doesn't happen, and suddenly United are left with a midfield of players who haven't the direction, vision and in most of their cases attitude to make **** happen. Maybe if United had beaten Arsenal to Ozil, Moyes would be getting backslapped all round.
No. Mata is not an afterthought to missing out on Ozil, and in hindsight I believe it's a blessing that we didn't challenge Arsenal for his signature. He goes missing in every big game, just watch as he becomes ever more unreliable for Arsenal through this tough period. Ozil isn't a patch on what Juan Mata was for Chelsea in my opinion, I don't think he understands this league and what it takes to be one of the best, unlike Hazard, who understands it completely and if Mata can rediscover his Chelsea form of the last few years, we have a genius on our hands as well. Ozil is untouchable on his day but disinterested far too often for me, maybe he'd have developed better under Fergie than Mourinho after leaving Werder Bremen but who knows? Mata wasn't available in the summer and we didn't really pursue Ozil, our interest was declared far too late. What I think Mata was signed for is because we failed to sign Fabregas; Moyes was happy to chase that deal from day one to day finish, even though they told us on day one he wasn't for sale. We failed to move on from the Fabregas persuit and we switched our attentions to Ander Herrera way too late. Whether he'd have turned out a good signing is a mystery but no matter which way you look at it, we didn't sign a creative midfield player, which is what we desperately needed as a minimum. With Rooney and RVP out at the same time, for long periods we've had to rely on Welbeck and a kid who's barely played a handful of games, that says everything about Moyes' lack of preparation for this season for me, I don't think Phelan would have allowed Moyes to go into the season with the squad we started with on Sept 1st.
Not at all lads, decent visitors always get a decent reception on here, even the likes of QWOP The thread isn't 'precious' and I'm surprised it received so many responses, good debate it good debate so carry on. At the side of some of the infantile drivel, over the past week, this is like the Cambridge Debating Society As far as Newcastle are concerned I remember Mags coming on 606 telling us how they were going to spend billions and dominate the English game when Ashley arrived. It was only when it was discovered he hadn't done 'due diligence' that the boasting ground to a halt. The fact that the club is trapped in a weird stadium, they don't own, may make a sale difficult. The supporters love it but it's not attractive to an outsider. I'm sure Sullivan & Gold only bought West Ham with a view to selling Upton Park and bullying their way into the new stadium. To me, as Terry says, Moyes is desperate to put his own stamp on the club ........... sadly that stamp is 2nd class Come on lads, that's ****ing comedy gold, right there!
Hahaha There's a picture going round that somebody mocked up of Fergie on the phone to Moyes with Moyes saying "I think we can finish 2nd" and Fergie says "What in every ****ing game?" makes me laugh every time I see it, wouldn't surprise me if Fergie knocked it up himself. There's only so much negative crap you can read and get bored with before it just becomes funny.
No arguments on Mata from me, I've said many times he & Suarez are the leagues 2 most naturally gifted, Hazard is coming close now of course. If not Ozil, then surely a player of that ilk was needed, anyone could see it. He clearly never fancied Kagawa, so he should have been looking around. Fabregas, yeah, different type though, more of a passer & mover than a genuine game changer.
The glaringly obvious solution is to simply shift Rooney into CM for the rest of the season, he's as close as you're gonna get to Paul Scholes with his vision and precision. Trouble is, Rooney wants to be the striker, so will he do that and hold no grudges against Moyes? We need him to sign the contract soon. Rooney is our best player in my opinion, he's the game changer and Fabregas would have formed an explosive partnership with Rooney. Unfortunately, he's at Barca, a team we cannot bully into giving us their player! Hazard is immense by the way, what a player he's turning out to be he gets better every week. Something about them stocky, low centre of gravity-type players that just play the game on another level. He's strong too, something Mata isn't, which I think spelled the end for Mata at Chelsea... fortunately!
They have his younger brother as well Thorgen, who is allegedly a more natural player, from Eden's own mouth. The mind boggles at that, although at his age Eden had already played a huge amount of games for Lille. The club he's at, Zulte-Waragem (on loan from Chelsea) only lost the league on the last day last season, the lad is scoring about 1 in 3 from midfield. Someone needs to poach him, a Chelsea team with 2 Hazard's is a terrifying thought.
