http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/fo...bandonment-of-plans-for-terrace-standing.html a lot of footie clubs in UK want safe standing. I am not sure just how this will be done. but are you for the idea or against it?
I know standing makes for a better atmosphere ie encourages more singing etc. but I have to come down on the side of the families on this.
Standing by itself wasn't the problem. If they go with standing again it needs to be reimplemented carefully and safely. Not totally against this but proceed with caution.
Sorry JB but I'm a traditionalist on this one. Football is an adult entertainment and not a family entertainment. Any seat that is occupied by a child is a waste. Sorry but that is the way I see it. As for standing, I'll leave that to others to discuss as now I would not stand.
Sorry Dave I didn't make my point very clear. I meant I was siding with the stance of the Hillsborough Families on this - no standing at games.
I don't think the plan is to make whole stadiums standing only... just certain stands. Have minimum age for standing sections. Let families have seated areas. Enough room to make everyone happy. Long term survival for clubs is by pulling in kids and making them fans. Financial incentives for clubs to encourage adults to bring their kids.
As always, completely entitled to your opinion, but man do I ever disagree!!!!!! One of the biggest reasons I follow football, played/playing football, coach football, etc is because of the 94 WC and the 96 Olympics where I was to go to the US games and see a game LIVE, to behold all of that as a kid was like a dream and made me want to pursue this to the death of me!!! I will alway remember watching Kanu and Okocha in 96 ( 12 at the time) and wanting to play like them as they were smooth and so in control of the ball. Couple that with the African fans going bonkers...... big big reason I am doing what I am doing today and have such a love for the game! I can see your point but These games are also where dreams come from for the kids too.
Sorry JB, I'm with you and the families. Far as I'm concerned if they so no that's the end of the matter. The lack of standing doesn't inhibit The Kop. The lack of volume is due to the reduction in numbers from 28,000 to 10,000 (?)
I'm very tempted to say Bollocks but let me explain. Do you think that any kid in Liverpool my age and under did not fall in love with either Liverpool or Everton long before they ever entered the ground. We played our football at schoolyard and in the streets and played Derby matches every day. We also dreamed of the day when we'd be big enough to go to the match. When yer Dad took you for the first time it was like a rite of passage. The American experience is much younger and built upon the game growing from a child base.
That statement simply isn't true. A lot of fans want to see safe standing at grounds but I sincerely doubt many tops clubs will support the move. A safe standing spot must include enough space to be able to sit, especially since Fifa/UEFA rules stop clubs from having standing areas in European football meaning each spot requires a fold down seat. On top of that, a standing ticket is meant to be cheaper than a seat. This is mainly based on the old standing areas not having these sort of controls enabling clubs to treat fans like cattle. If each standing spot is equivalent to a seat space, they would look to charge at least the same price. How many clubs are going to spend millions converting their stadiums to fulfil the fans wishes without a foreseeable financial benefit? The only clubs that will look at it are the ones looking to make stadium alterations anyway or the ones that have owners with money to waste.
1. We know the fans were not at fault 2. The police were. 3. Their policies and actions lead to the death of 96 fans. 4. In itself this means that standing wasn't directly responsible for the deaths. 5. I'd be okay with a section for adults 18+ to stand with rail seating , provided there were tons of safety protocols involved and the police heavily monitored the matches. Of course someone would monitor the police. This could cost the club but if it makes fans happy it is time for clubs to give back to the community.
As if clubs will pay to have thousands of seats removed and also pay to have their grounds restuctered so that the steep concrete steps that will appear when the seats are ripped out will have to be re-concreted at safer angles etc. Add to that the price would be lower to stand than sit, it just won't happen.
I may be the wrong person to say this but in the emotional aftermath of this tragedy do you think the families have considered what the people they lost would have wanted. I would take a guess that most if not all of the people who died that day would have chosen to stand instead of sit (given the option) because it is a whole different experience. The stand or the crowd did not cause this tragedy, the way things were managed did. With staggered rails 10-12 steps apart and properly managed entrance levels to avoid over crowding i am of the opinion standing is perfectly safe.
I've always been pro-standing and always will be. I've never believed for a minute that areas being terraced were resposible for any stadium disaster, it has always been due to a combination of appaling organisation/policing and shocking safety standards. Unfortunately therein lies my problem with the reintroduction of standing areas yet. Who exactly IS responsible for fans safety on a weekly basis? The corrupt footballing associations or the even more corrupt police? Who exactly gets held to account when things go wrong? Judging from the past 25 years NO ONE seems to be held responsible for it. It's all very well talking about safety protocols, monitoring standing areas etc but I've seen before how quickly those standards can slip and what the consequences can be when they do, consequences that are felt only by those of us who go to the game and seemingly never by those who are supposed to be in charge of our safety. Bang up the ****s responsible for Hillsborough (and the subsequent cover-up) and then let's discuss standing as a possibility going forward.
As has been pointed out many times Diego standing was a factor but not the cause of the disaster, if you ever went to a semi final there in the 80's you'd know that it was the police's policy to have the cages to the left and right of the goal locked and barely populated and only the central one accessible for the majority of supporters, why I don't know and why a similar disaster never happened their in the years prior to 89 was sheer luck. I think Utd played Leeds or Derby there the Day we played Everton at Maine Rd and I read that a crush was on the cards that day and Wolves fans said it almost happened to them, remembercolinlee from the Spurs board told me it almost happened to Spurs fans, the Leppings Land was a disaster waiting to happen. As for your question I think that obviously apart from the young lads and girls that died the men that lost their lives were brought up being kopites, Anny Rd enders or stood in the paddock and I'd say if they could they would point out that its ok to stand in a safe environment with proper policing and proper facilities,we were treated no better that cattle back then, the families stance on standing is purely that they feel that seating would have meant they still had their loved ones and that they don't want other families to ever go through what they have.
I know this and fully understand it, i would probably feel exactly the same way if i had lost sombody close to me. I still feel standing can be safe if stand/section capacity`s are adhered to and sufficiant step breaks (rails) are put in place.
Diego, I'm not having a go but this whole issue bites deep with every Redman. Therefore whilst it may be a purely emotional response unless or until the families clearly state that they have no objection to standing at Anfield then for me its a non-starter. But as Page has said I don't see the clubs themselves promoting this as it will have major cost and hence revenue implications.
