Sorry if this has been done before. On Five live this morning they said that the FA will be asking the Government to consider safe standing in football grounds starting with the Championship. Whilst accepting that we're not about to go back to crumbling steep, cavernous banked monstrosities designed to hold 15,00 which frequently held double that and assuming that fences won't be coming back either, I'm still not convinced that, as a concept, "safe standing" is actually possible. We all know how football fans can behave when excitement and tension levels are increased - people lose all sense of reality. this isnlt to say that all fans are thugs - far from it but when goals are scored or other key things happen a few thousand people going completely mad in a confined space is always going to carry risks. I'd also be concerned that there is an increased risk of violence - plenty of games are still pay on the gate so it's not rocket science to think that supporters of other teams could easily gain access to the "wrong" end and have a punch up if they wanted to and i canlt help thinking it would be easier to do so in a standing environment. The only 2 arguments coming from the lobby in favour are that it will mean cheaper tickets and the atmosphere will improve. On the first issue i don't believe for a minute that tickets will be that much cheaper - it's still supplty and demand and if clubs are filling their grounds they are not going to drop the price. On the second one I am genuinely not convinced as to how much of a difference this would make. Some sets of fans are noisy some are not. If you want to have people singing etc. then the way forward is to set aside areas for fans who want to do that - much as Watford have already done of course. So - what's the view of other hornets on this issue?
Surely we would follow the German example and have allotted spaces with a barrier front and back between each row of standing to prevent surging?
The first time there is any sign of trouble IF this comes in will see the standing banned again so its quite a risk as clubs will spend money introducing this potentially.
Exactly what I was thinking Mark. Mine is unlikely to be a popular view but i don't think the risks are worth the possible improvement in atmosphere to be perfectly honest. The german argument interests me as well - the best atmosphere I've seen in a TV game in quite a while involved 2 German teams - the European cup Final at an all seated wembley!
Surely the proposed safe standing is a lot safer than the current situation of standing in seated areas. Football fans seem capable of standing safely at Yeovil, Brentford etc.
Exactly. Even if some argue that smaller crowds in those grounds naturally make it safer, it makes little difference as the grounds themselves are also smaller.
Are we talking about L*t*n's ground here? I'm pretty sure that they 'attract' more than 3,000 - but not much more.
Luton are alright. A scummy element, of course, but I've met plenty of good Luton fans and the away end is good and has a bit of uniqueness about it at least. It's a 'proper' club, for want of a better word. Like them or hate them, and I wouldn't expect many here to like them, their crowds are good given they weren't getting many more in the top division.
Maybe anyone doubting that standing can be safe for a large crowd should take a trip to Dortmund, where they will see a standing terrace full with 28,000 people. If it's safe there then it can be in England as well. The assumption however that standing terraces are always louder than seated ones differs from club to club. Stadiums like Arsenal and Chelsea having an atmosphere like in a library, whereas Stoke city have an even better atmosphere now than in the old Victoria Ground.
I dont see why we cant just create a section (like the singing section) with regular seats and just allow people to stand. You get issued a ticket with the seat number on it but instead of sitting in that space you stand. The club can limit the number of people in the stadium as its only one ticket per seat and you arent cramming people in willy nilly. The previous disasters were caused because the people in charge failed to manage the situation and there was no limit on numbers. Nobody has been hurt in the games at vicarage road when the 1881 have all been standing!
I don't doubt we'd have no problems but we're reasonably well behaved as a set of fans. We can all think of a few clubs not in that category. I think you also have to put a lot of trust in those managing the situation and they're not necessarily up to it. In fairness I am coming at this as someone who still remembers getting involved in some very dodgy crowding issues back in the day (non violent I should add!) so probably struggle to see it objectively. Cologne hornet makes a very valid point re Germany and if that model is followed then I cannot really complain.
Personally I don't want standing. I have a long way to come and I want to know that my space is there for me no matter what time I arrive in a place that I like very much.
