Hillsborough disaster survivors 'threatened by police'

Appreciate its a sensitive subject and emotions run high especially when you disagree with someones point such as this but try not to result to insults pal

 

As for this drink thing - well chance would have been a fine thing for most involved. Don't forget, pubs within a two-mile radius were closed and the local off licences were sold-out, allegedly, hours before the game. However the main point overlooked by the police in making that allegation, that was smashed to bits by the Taylor Report anyway, was that the overwhelming majority of Liverpool supporters never got there in time to have a drink anyway. I know my dad and sister set off from the Supporters' Club in Lower breck Rd at 9am, as they had the year before, in the hope that they'd have at least an hour for a drink, but because of the roadworks on the motorway AND CONSTANT COACH SEARCHES FOR ALCOHOL BY THE POLICE (they were even stopped by GM police on the way back to Liverpool at 7pm) they had to run through Nottingham to get there in time for the match, let alone have a drink. Luckily they were in the stands and not terracing.

But ffs, two things here: 1) Duckenfield and the police KNEW thousands of Liverpool supporters would be there late and had contingency plans they'd trained for in just this circumstance - but he, a late replacement as chief officer on the day, simply froze and did nothing until it was too late and un-co-ordinated.

2) the police are paid large amounts of money to police public events such as semi-finals. Does their planning not entail that football fans at a semi-final, or indeed rugby fans, cricket fans or policing new year's eve at Trafalgar square, may not have been drinking? Er, again, it was in their own plans for policing such events; and the same fans of both teams had drunk the same (probably more considering the roadworks) the year before at the same event but, crucially, commanded by a different, more professional officer.

To blame this on alcohol is like a nightclub owner, whose deathtrap of a venue with blocked fire escapes and no extinguishers, had burned down killing hundreds, blaming the customers for being under the influence of drink. the buck stops somewhere in this country, surely?

 

But given that he works within the public eye and it is likely that the majority of his colleagues, friends and acquantances will be celebrities or have on screen characters that relate to him, is it fair to not allow such evidence to be presented, given that him being famous shouldn't stop him being able to put forward the same tools of defence of someone who isn't.

 

Up to now the discussions with you have been civilised but when you start calling people on here " a bit of a **** tbh... " about their deeply held feelings on an issue like Hillsborough, you have certainly crossed the line.

If you haven't got the humanity and common decency to understand how the majority of us feel about this issue and all that surrounds it then your very presence is an insult.

 

Thanks for the insults, nice to know civil debate can be had on your board.

Your still completely missing the point, which is due to your high emotional attachment to the issue, i get it, but that doesn't make your view point correct. Deciding you don't give a **** about innocent people being effected by you getting what you want is you acting in the exact same way your annoyed at others for acting. I get that the anger behind the subject clouds judgement but choosing to act in a way that is wrong because you feel wronged doesnt make it ok.

I'm not suggesting that people in south yorkshire should blame Liverpool fans for the costs being piled onto their police force. Honestly i dont think the hole blame game serves any purpose at all. The fact is that the people of south yorkshire, if the grant isn't given will have their level of policing effected for reasons that have nothing to do with themselves. Ultimately they are the ones who will suffer if the grant isn't given, not you or anyone else from Liverpool.

Your viewpoint is selfish and driven by anger, i understand why you've ended up with such an aggresive stance given the events leading up to this time but that doesn't excuse you showing the same disregard for other people that you feel has been shown to you by the police.

 

Saying you don't give a **** about anyone else and how they are effected as long as you get what you want does come across like a bit of a **** Appologies if the word has ofended, i use it in my every day speech and so sometimes don't realise how annoyed it will make someone!

 

It also does not give you the right to abuse posters here and by the evidence of your posts on this thread, merely gratify yourself by provoking an argument.

 

He had made a comment outraged about the grant, i was merely pointing out that the only people who would actualy be negatively effected by not giving this grant are innocent people who had nothing to do with it. He then replied - f**k them i dont give a **** abut anyone else. Thats hardly me trying to provoke an argument.

I also wasn't aware i had abused anyone.

 

Right. This is getting out of hand. Can I respectfully suggest that the Arsenal poster just leave well alone for a while, You really have no conception how emotive this is for anyone attached to the city and to the club. The hub of this whole thing is justice for the poor people who died and their families and friends. How, or who pays for it is completely ****ing immaterial in the overall scheme of things.

Please respect this.

 

Completely agree RE the important thing being justice being done and the truth being told and not who pays. I was literally just pointing out that blind rage against everyone even those who have nothing to do with it is hardly going to rally support to the cause. I completely understand how emotive it is, (mainly due to scouse friends it has to be said!) but i think when people get caught up in so much emotion, that they then begin to act in ways similar to those you start off so disgusted with, that it doesn't help.

In my first couple of posts i tried to make it really clear that i wasn't trying to take away from the tragedy in any way and didn't want to cause offence. Apologies if that is the way my posts have been taken, but from my perspective i was just having a rather normal debate without saying anything outrageous or offensive.

 

Lets leave it at that fellas. I don't want to close this thread as the OP has information and links that should remain available.

 

This ^ Were you surprised at how polite and constructive I was there, you sheep-shagging ****hound?

 

Attention!!


We all know this subject is delicate and brings out the emotional reactions from a lot of posters, but can I please ask that you all respect other posters opinions. There is absolutely no need to resort to insults! Therefore, any insults I see from here on in I shall be deleting the full comment.

I intend to track back now deleting any insults that have already been passed.

Edit: Done. Please highlight any I may have missed.

 

All due respect, you started it with this "You just sound like a bit of a **** tbh.."

 

This one, tosser

 

#predictableandboring

 

As soon as someone called me up on it i explained my stance. I had meant it as a, "wording things that way makes you come off poorly" rather than to cause offense. It was about the attitude of "**** everyone else as long as i get what i want" rather than a personal dig at him. Suggesting someone is comming across badly and directly insulting someone are different, for me anyway.

Though i appreciate my comments may have been taken the wrong way, **** is a word that i use regularly, so sometimes forget others will find it offensive. Which is why i had already appologised the second someone noticed it and suggested they had taken offense

 

Takes one to know one

 

I realised that but it was that that triggered the insults IMO. Not to worry, I've sorted through the thread now. As I said, we all get emotionally involved in these debates so tempers often flair up.

 

Absolute top top top top response




PS...I sense a new "sympathy post" & "FFS " type thing here