Official Pre-season testing thread

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51LV3R8RR04 said:
But lets be honest it would be a very hollow victory against Vettel over a season if he wasn't able to defend his world title with one hand tied behind his back, let alone both at the moment + his legs.

You might enjoy it for a while he struggles to get into Q2, but you guys will miss him if your favorite driver/team cant actually face him on equal ground and beat him and his team. I would know as I experienced it during 2009 when I used to hate Lewis' guts. Yes it was hand rubbing quality that Lewis and McLaren were struggling, but I got annoyed in that I couldn't see Vettel do it to him on equal ground for a WDC, 2010 and 2011 though did it for me.

And the repeat of 'what if that driver had that car? would he won the WDC with that car?'
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RBR will get it sorted eventually, but how Vettel reacts if they have a bad start will really set the season.
 
My point is, that if the RBR does turn out to be extremely problematic, and the Renault engine is at a really big disadvantage, whoever takes the title will likely be hit by suggestions that they won in a season where Vettel was hampered.

In reality, each driver can only compete with the the equipment they have and against the competition that's there... but it would always be brought up, either fairly or unfairly.

I doubt it will be as bad as what it seems right now. We still have six weeks 'till the start of the season. There will be some long nights ahead for many people at both Renault and RBR, but I reckon they'll get on top of it.
 
Yeah I think RBR will sort it out, the other teams will also salvage something in terms of performance, it's only been the first test.
I know we all like a bit of drama, truth is there are thousands of technicians ready to go ham on the engines and get them sorted.
 
SgtBhaji said:
My point is, that if the RBR does turn out to be extremely problematic, and the Renault engine is at a really big disadvantage, whoever takes the title will likely be hit by suggestions that they won in a season where Vettel was hampered.

In reality, each driver can only compete with the the equipment they have and against the competition that's there... but it would always be brought up, either fairly or unfairly.

I doubt it will be as bad as what it seems right now. We still have six weeks till the start of the season. There wil be some long nights ahead for many people at both Renault and RBR, but I reckon they'll get on top of it.
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If Vettel were to lose anyway, there will still be people saying that he didn't have a good car so the title could be 'tainted'.

You have to use the equipment you are given and make the best of it to beat the rest of the grid, not just Vettel.
 
I hear ya ASC.... I just want all the big players (and small ones too) to be competitive this year and provide a bloody good title fight after the 2013 borefest.

Having RBR severely hampered would suck.
 
AbsolutelyGlorious said:
I think they have gone too far trying to spice things up this year, and they've flown pretty close to the wind in this regard in the last couple of years. I'm not basing any of this on the Renault fiasco which is an inexcusable **** up, but they've introduced one of the most significant rule changes in decades and then slashed the amount of testing time. Then to make matters worse they've been limited to five engines for the season. I've never agreed with people who say retirements are exciting, I think it's a farcical way for a race to be decided and can be completely unfair. 2012 at McLaren is a pretty good example, Hamilton thrashed Button, he was embarrassing him at certain points of the season, but because Hamilton was plagued with unreliability he only finished two points ahead. The Renault engines that year are a pretty good example as well, 8 drivers were running their engines, Vettel lost a win and a 6th place to alternators, Grosjean lost a second place, and I think the rest were largely unaffected. Of course reliability is part of the package, but sometimes two drivers or two teams can get completely different results from the same package and it's just luck who ends up with what. It wouldn't be good if a driver lost a load of race wins, and as a result the championship, to a driver who inherited a load of wins for example.

We're almost a third of the way through testing and the teams still aren't running the engines flat out. On top of that they're trying to learn what the new tyres and new aero are like, and what the best way to approach a race is in terms of fuel saving and tyres. And even if by some miracle they get a handle on all that, all their hard work could be undone by one faulty component. On top of all this Bernie's pushing for double points in the last three races, by which time there's probably going to be grid penalties galore as everyone moves into their 6th, 7th and 8th engines.*

I'm not saying the championship will be tainted, but it would be a crying a shame if it was decided by which driver happened to get the fewest faulty parts delivered by his engine supplier. There'd also be uproar if McLaren have a faster car than Mercedes this year but lose the championship to them because their engines seem to blow up more frequently than the works team's.


*They also have a weird way of applying penalties this year:



So basically if a team has a recurring issue with a specific component, say the energy store, they'll get a ten place penalty each time they replace it once they've used the first 5.
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There is always going to be an element of luck. I think you did a pretty good job with those examples of showing that it doesn't need rule changes to have an effect. I personally feel like it is important for F1 to evolve and change and when it does the teams that can adapt best will win. It already looks like Mercedes in particular have produced a pretty reliable engine, so the blame lies with Renault and Red Bull, not with the rules. I expect that the actual frequency of retirements won't be as bad as is being made out. It will be worse than last year, but we won't be back in the 1980's and it will get back to normal pretty quickly.

I agree though that F1 is showing a worrying trend of doing way to many things "to spice things up". Double points being the prime offender.
 
allsaintchris. said:
All the questions about whether the cars will last the races will draw more viewers in.

This is exactly what F1 needed. Unkown quantities. What's wrong with only half the field finishing? Always used to be that way and often it was never 100% sure which cars they would be.

We're all used to 90% finishing rates, and usually its accidents that take the cars out, so why not bring back another variable? Cars, engines, reliability, tyres & driver ability all will be tested more this year than for a long time. Brilliant!


You doubt this? 45 pages after just 3 days of testing shows how much more interest there is just on this forum compared to last year.
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Yes, I agree and if Bernie's memory is still functioning fully, he'll remember how much more exciting F1 was when cars were less reliable than we've come to expect recently. Renault's weaknesses have been already exposed for all to see but no one is really pushing yet so who's to say that the other engines won't have issues too, perhaps in the heat of Bahrain, for example. Now, if only he could be persuaded to drop this stupid double points gimmick; for me, this latter change is the real risk of tainting the championships this year.

As for Red Bull's reported cooling issues, well, tough: better sort it quickly if it's true. But Horner says the problems are all down to Renault so Red Bull themselves can't have any cooling issues, can they?
 
51LV3R8RR04 said:
But lets be honest it would be a very hollow victory against Vettel
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Come on, apart from the very average no2 driver Mark Webber no one had a car capable of challenging Red-Bull in 2011 or 2013. That made them kinda hollow.

51LV3R8RR04 said:
You might enjoy it for a while he struggles to get into Q2, but you guys will miss him
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Trust me................I wouldn't!
 
Videos from today:

[NSFW][video=youtube;4jdtL-BQDh0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4jdtL-BQDh0[/video]

[video=youtube;sptIkHSfzwE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sptIkHSfzwE[/video]

[video=youtube;kG33L24HbVo]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kG33L24HbVo[/video]

[video=youtube;e95rAJZaWOg]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e95rAJZaWOg[/video]

[video=youtube;1FpdlEo1yaA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1FpdlEo1yaA[/video]

[video=youtube;47hfrNRgzes]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=47hfrNRgzes[/video]

[video=youtube;BFncNuIdN2c]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BFncNuIdN2c[/video]

[video=youtube;e-wyD6qbKKo]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e-wyD6qbKKo[/video][/NSFW]

I hate to say it but I think Mercedes has the best engine sound. Ferrari sounds amazing off-throttle though.
 
allsaintchris. said:
All the questions about whether the cars will last the races will draw more viewers in.

This is exactly what F1 needed. Unkown quantities. What's wrong with only half the field finishing? Always used to be that way and often it was never 100% sure which cars they would be.

We're all used to 90% finishing rates, and usually its accidents that take the cars out, so why not bring back another variable? Cars, engines, reliability, tyres & driver ability all will be tested more this year than for a long time. Brilliant!


You doubt this? 45 pages after just 3 days of testing shows how much more interest there is just on this forum compared to last year.
Click to expand...

The problem with bringing in unknown scenarios and unpredictability is that people find it great, until their favourite driver has a problem or retires then suddenly it's not so brilliant, which is exactly what we saw with Hamilton at Silverstone last year, people were immediately irate and calling for the rules to be changed. That is the problem right now, people just want the rules that will put the driver they want on top of the podium, at which point they'll claim those rules are perfect which i'm sure is why many are liking or loving the current situation, because a driver they like might actually be involved in the first half of the season, which just ever so slightly increases their chances.
 
I would choose anyone to beat vettel this year. That said I want him beaten with at least some degree of fairness. If any engine does dominate I'd want it to be Mercedes. That's partly because who I support, but mostly because it still leaves top teams to battle each other :)
 
I saw a comment early today from a Spanish person who went to Jerez and he/she said McLaren was on rails accelerating out of the chicane while everyone else was sliding around.

TJ13 also has positive things to say about the McLaren:

TheJudge13 said:
I have to say, the McLaren is looking by some margin the best balanced car. Having spent the day walking the circuit, whether in the hands of world champion Jenson Button or rookie Kevin Magnusson, the MP4-29 was cornering as though it was on rails.

McLaren have taken a huge gamble by ditching protégé Sergio Perez and recruiting Kevin Magnusson whose highest level experience has been in the Renault World Series championship. This appointment reveals how highly the team from Woking regard this rookie driver, because they do have egg on their face from the recruitment and dismissal of Perez, and they can’t afford another driver mistake.

I had no 3G as I spent the afternoon around the back of the circuit and therefore was completely unaware of the lap times being set. Yet Magnusson was clearly hitting every apex, breaking to almost perfection and driving the car with the ease and rhythm of someone who has been a pilot at the top level of single seater motorsport for many years.

Whilst Lewis was experimenting with different gear shift patterns through the long turn 5 onto the back straight, Magnussun was metronomic in his approach to this corner for lap after lap.


This kid is clearly the real deal, and before the bookies get wind of his talent, for those of you willing to take a punt, whatever his odds for the world title, he’s well worth a few quid.

It’s good to see Felipe Massa settling into his new team so quickly, and the Williams must be thanking their lucky stars they bailed out of the Renault stable. With their new Mercedes engine the FW 36 looked racey and quick, though at times twitchy at the rear.

Every dynasty rises and falls, and whilst it’s too early to write off Newey and the Red Bull with their budget of hundreds of millions, they are unquestionably in a fight to deliver a car capable of completing a Grand Prix at present, never mind providing quadruple world champion Sebastian Vettel with a car capable of a significant points scoring position.
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See if I was real fanboy of Vettel I could already say this season is a write off, dismiss the champion elect and bring up hypothetical situations in that 'Seb isn't only fighting Alonso or whoever, but better engines, the FIA and RENAULT THEMSELVES!' and that if Vettel had the same car he would of dominated even more. Though that story is getting a bit boring now...
 
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