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No Cabaye tonight [+Match-Day thread seeing as it's heading that way anyway....]

Discussion in 'Norwich City' started by RiverEndRick, Jan 28, 2014.

  1. robbieBB

    robbieBB Well-Known Member

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    Yet if you look under "Styles" in the Match Summary you will see that it says "Played with width". Also, if you look at the Player Positions graphics for all the matches that were played last night, you would conclude that none of the teams involved played with width. <ok>
     
    #241
  2. JKCanary

    JKCanary Guest

    Well that's buggered my theory then.
     
    #242
  3. General Melchett

    General Melchett Well-Known Member

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    I'll second that (although happy enough for Martin ahead of Whittaker, they both seem as bad as each other recently).
    I'd like to see it played with some freedom for the attcking midfield trio to interchange and keep the oppo defense guessing, I fear however such freedom would not be tolerated!

    Bah!
     
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  4. Canary Rob

    Canary Rob Well-Known Member

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    I'm not sure I agree with them in it though - the player positioning quite clearly shows we were narrow as you say, but the reason they conclude that is because our attacks apparently "came" from the side. The trouble is, I think they must be basing that on the fullbacks moving forward, but given how few crosses we put in, width really doesn't represent our style of play. The fact that "playing through the middle" doesn't represent our style either just goes to show how blunt we are.
     
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  5. yarco canary

    yarco canary Well-Known Member

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    As pointed out by Supers I obviously don't know what a diamond is.

    My understanding was 1 striker,2 widemen and I centre midfield backed be 2 defensive/holding midfield.and a back 4.

    striker

    wingman wingman

    attack/centre midfield

    def/holding midfield def/holding midfield

    back c/back c/back back​

    Can someone educate me please
     
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  6. JKCanary

    JKCanary Guest

    I think traditionally and generally, people tend to picture a four-man midfield (one DM, one AM, and either two wide men or two CMs) when anyone uses the phrase 'diamond'.

    Your version (aesthetically anyway) Yarco, appears to be more of a 'Christmas Tree' to me.
     
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  7. Canary Rob

    Canary Rob Well-Known Member

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    I think most people view it like this:

    Goalkeeper
    Fullback ... Centreback ... Centreback ... Fullback
    Holding Midfielder
    Right Midfielder............. Left Midfielder
    Attacking Midfielder
    Centre Forward ... Centre Forward

    I.e., you look at just the midfield and it forms a diamond.
     
    #247
  8. Canary Rob

    Canary Rob Well-Known Member

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    I'd say his formation is a typical 4-2-3-1, which is exactly what Newcastle played yesterday
     
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  9. yarco canary

    yarco canary Well-Known Member

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    My sincere thanks to all who have added to my education.<cheers>
     
    #249
  10. JKCanary

    JKCanary Guest

    Pleasure.

    Classic Lambert-esque, Championship diamond:

    Fox
    Crofts - Surman
    Hoolahan
     
    #250

  11. robbieBB

    robbieBB Well-Known Member

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    But as I pointed out, if you look at the Player Positions graphics for all the matches played last night, you would have to conclude that no team played with width (despite being described on the same page as having done just that). You say we put in few crosses, but OPTA recorded 19, which I wouldn't call "few". <ok>
     
    #251
  12. Walsh.i.am

    Walsh.i.am Well-Known Member
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    #252
  13. Canary Rob

    Canary Rob Well-Known Member

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    Admittedly few is an exaggeration, but a lot fewer than Newcastle - they put in 28 - and they only had one striker. And even as a percentage of possession, Newcastle crossed the ball much more. I quite literally can't remember us putting in a single cross, though
     
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  14. robbieBB

    robbieBB Well-Known Member

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    For what it's worth, our ratio of successful crosses was much better than Newcastle's (30% to 10%). People "see" and "remember" different things, which is why I keep banging the stats drum. <ok>
     
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  15. JKCanary

    JKCanary Guest

    But, is it fair to say that:

    More crosses = more chances created from crosses BUT usually a lower overall ratio of successful crosses
     
    #255
  16. RiverEndRick

    RiverEndRick Well-Known Member

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    Newcastle has two top quality FBs (have a look at their Whoscored ratings for the match: 8.1 and 7.5 and for the season: 7.5 and 7.13) and that had a lot to do with City's undereffectiveness from the flanks. City's FBs by comparison have these ratings: Whittaker 6.85, Olsson 6.76 and Martin 6.5). That differential is much the same for the whole starting line-up and it becomes even greater when you compare the top five teams.
     
    #256
  17. robbieBB

    robbieBB Well-Known Member

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    No, because there can be no chance created from an unsuccessful cross; unless a cross is successful in the first place, a chance cannot be created from it. Unsuccessful crosses are crosses e.g. cleared by defenders or claimed by the keeper. What you could say is that a high number of crosses indicates a high degree of pressure on the opposition defence, but as we know too well, a team can exert a lot of pressure on the opposition defence yet fail to create many chances, score or win the game. <ok>
     
    #257
  18. robbieBB

    robbieBB Well-Known Member

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    Exactly right. If you look at the Player Influence stats for the match, Debuchy heads the list and Santon is not far behind. <ok>
     
    #258
  19. SUPERNORWICH 23

    SUPERNORWICH 23 SUPERNORWICH

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    Really weird that when Hughton sets up defensively with 1 up front we seem to concede easily yet when he plays 4 4 2 we keep getting clean sheets<8 now i think>, the clean sheet factor is our only saving grace this season and may keep us up if we do it against our rivals.
     
    #259
  20. carrabuh

    carrabuh Well-Known Member

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    Put it this way

    21% of our passes were long, a staggering amount
    12% for Newcastle

    It stands to reason that if you hit long passes you are more likely to give it away and fail to put in a cross.

    It's not a case of us not playing the crossing game, more to do with us being unable to get the ball to the correct position to do so. It is even worse than normal.
     
    #260

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