Before Wilkins and Curbishley came on board I think the RM had decided his bestformation for the players at his disposal was 4-3-3. Why have we reverted to other formations that don't work and will never work this side of the next millenium? RM is leaving himself wide open to criticism of tactics etc. Do you think that his thinking is being muddied by Wilkins and Curbishley? I could see light at the end of the tunnel when RM stepped up but we've gone backwards. Any comments?
Bandit posted this on the Swansea thread: "What really stings for me is the fact that in our first two games (Spurs, Villa) we went with a 4-3-3 of Kara/Parker/Sidwell in the middle and saw a massive improvement in our shape and overall play, since Curbs and Ray have come in, we have only gone backwards. Did Rene need extra heads to be brought in? I think it was 58 who said it was a case of 'too many cooks' and I think he may have been right. Some of the decisions Rene has made since he's been here have been baffling. Bent, misses an absolute sitter against Sheff Utd, gets game time coming on tonight as a sub, Rods, scores equalising goal in the cup to keep us in the competition, is left to rot on the bench." I am of the same opinion that these two have had a negative impact, unless it is the players that can't deliver. The new manager effect has gone and now back to the same old. At least this is what applies to Berbatov and potentially Taarabt who is being shipped. Bent shows no signs of life and the point of not using Hugo who despite all his negatives puts a gear in is simply baffling!
I really don't know what Hugo has to do to get game time to be honest. Bent last night gave away the free-kick which led to the second goal yet come the weekend against Southampton he will possibly be either starting or at least coming off the bench. I'd honestly rather have Trotta than Bent right now.
The to-ing and fro-ing on this forum is somewhere between hilarious and depressing. A week or two ago, the hatred for Hugo was dripping from the proverbial walls, today he's supposed to be our first choice striker? If I told you all a few weeks ago we should start him because he scored a last-gasp goal against a League 1 team I'd have been blasted with a torrent of abuse (much like I'm about to be now!). Bizarre.
Something in your tea this morning Bids? I'll presume your post was in reply to mine. A player is only as good as the previous game. Form is after all, temporary. Let's have a look at what Rodallega did in his previous game, scored a goal, and Bent? Fluffed an open goal, and failed to score. Nowhere in my post did I say Rodallega deserves to start, but he deserves to be ahead of Bent in the pecking order right now. Football fans are fickle, myself included. If Hangeland were to have a few error ridden games I'd call for Hughes/Amorebieta to be re-instated despite the fact both haven't been at the races this season, the fact is, if something isn't working, you have to change it.
I'm with you here Bidders. One other comment; If our players read our board it is no wonder they lack confidence, I'll say no more.
I take the blame for Ruiz, Berbatov and others I have slayed here. If they were normal employees they would have received their P45 by now!
Ah yes. I can picture it now. 'Rene, you must be absolutely devastated to have succumbed to relegation, what do you think was the underlying factor behind your fall from grace?' 'Some guys on Fulham not 606 said some mean things, which really got to the players, they went from being world class to absolute dogshite in just 24 hours. It's the only possible explanation.'
I post this on the basis of watching very little of us this season so apologise if it sounds contrary to opinion. The few games I have watched we struggle to get in behind defences. I have seen very few attempts from either, Berba, Bent or Rodders to play on the shoulder of the last defender. As someone who used to play up front, being on the shoulder and hence looking to run the channels was the most effective way of playing and was very hard to defend against. Berbatov and Bent have no pace so maybe this is why they play a bit deeper. Rodders I cannot comment on as I have not seen too much of him this season. The fact remains we desperately need a striker or two who are going to work the opposition defence, who are pacey and who are willing to take a gamble and run the channels. The cup tie against Sheffield utd highlighted this perfectly. So many times Kara was bringing the ball forward and was visibly waiting for someone to move, no one did and we did not penetrate their defence. I also felt for Plumain in the Sheffield game. If you have a young winger who can take people on and operate in space, then it is vital to have an overlapping full back to take the opposition full back out. Duff was not doing this at all. I agree with the general comments that when Rene was solely in charge we played with more cohesion. The injury to Brede was massive in our down fall. Now he is back hopefully we can get a bit of solidity at the back.
Bandit has a point. We can't afford the luxury of playing Berbatov. At least Hugo puts some effort in. I doubt players read this forum and I doubt the topics and comments are any different in any other Fulham forum. Its extremely rare that we, 606ers, are negative but youve got to admit somethings wrong whitestripes? What are your thoughts on what needs to be done etc?
I can assure you the comments on Fulham's posting on FB for some of the players if I was to repeat them here will get me banned!!!
Bandit, "Football fans are fickle, myself included." so one day they are world beaters the next less than useless, in your opinion I assume. All I can say is that as all our players are human and would act like you and I so comments here can affect them. If I read OTT comments from my clients or people working from me I would loose confidence or at least be having a ruck with them. But I'm world class 24/7 so no problems there Crav; What would I do? Lots of the same as others have highlighted, use wide players which has worked well, especially Dej. We need to add strength and loose some players that continue not to deliver (Duff, Berbs (sadly), Bent, Trab (not so sadly), but before we do and so as not to have a team at all, we need others in. The Greek sounds and looks very good, so yes please. Another engine in midfield with even combination of attack and defense, perhaps that is Morrison. A LB just to keep others on the board happy (but we do need better quality there). Bring in some of the younger players, Burn has been brilliant, so why not The Tank, David as I'm sure they will perform well. We have some very good players at the club, ok their form does take a dip from time to time but generally they are very good pro's. I would stop criticizing our coaching quality, The Mule, Butch and Crubs are all top draw and enlisted by the new owner which shows ambition. We are trying to bring in players in a difficult market and fingers crossed we will have success. We have money which is evident from the bids we are putting in (No nothing to do with you Bidder's). We have a new stand to come, along with a dog fight to stay in the EPL. We cannot afford to be relegated, and those thinking it would do us good are very much mistaken, I watch a lot of Campionship football (Mrs Stripes is a Leicester supporter) and it is a hard league to get out of as it holds many clubs wanting and financing EPL football and we would become another with the same dreams. Unfortunately we cannot donate a few £M to the referees retirement fund, which would be a last resort but could have proved helpful. All WE can do is support the team, shout louder than our opponents at the matches (in support) and become the 12th player we need (unless it had been the Costa, thank god he has moved on for now, skillful but too lightweight for the EPL). I wish I lived nearer so could add my support, but you may hear me from time to time all the way from Londonderry (I'm not a national of NI but what they call a Blow in, and family roots in Fulham). Oh, and I hope none of our players read this board but if they do they have much ticker skin than I do. You're glad you asked now eh!
Yes, because that's what I said... The difference is that these guys get paid an extraordinary amount of money to do their jobs well, I don't. If someone complains about me, sure if affects you for all of 5-10 minutes and then you move on, I'm sure the millions will be of some comfort to the underachievers in the squad.
Getting back to Craving's original post. He actually beat me to it although my thread title was going to be: "We've Got Three Managers" “We’ve Got Three Managers” has been the chant on the terraces since the beginning of the year. First there is Rene, who joined on 13th November and appointed as Head Coach to ‘help’ Jol. However, two matches later, on 2nd December and following a shambolic loss 3-0 to West Ham, he took charge. Arguably, it wasn’t just the six consecutive defeats under Jol that ended his reign, it was the lacklustre performances and loss of confidence in the dressing room. While Rene’s opening was far from good results wise, only one win and three defeats in his first four games, the team performances were a revelation. There was a format that suited our squad, players selected in positions that they were comfortable with and direct football; using the spaces, ’pinging’ the ball from side to side. Then, on Christmas Day, the second ‘manager‘ joined. Curbs was appointed as First Team Technical Director. Nobody attributed his joining as anything to do with the results under Rene and while the Club has never explained his remit, the general assumption is that he was an ’old head’ brought in to take the weight off Rene in the upcoming January window. Whatever, the very next day there was a doughty but heart warming win away to Norwich. That however was followed by a humiliating defeat at Hull and pretty much immediately after, on 30th December, Butch came in. Co-incidence? There are probably as many opinions among fans as there were pies sold at the Cottage when we took revenge against West Ham two days later. This wasn’t a swashbuckling win though and the team selection raised a few eyebrows - primarily the reversion to a two man midfield. Guessing now, but most fans probably explained this away as Rene springing a surprise (some of his team selections thus far had been unexpected after all) and the pressure of a “must win” game. Could Butch have had an influence? Very unlikely in such a short space of time. Surely?? What has followed though has been three resounding defeats (ignoring the Cup games). And, * a persistence in abandoning the earlier, successful three man midfield * a prevalance of sideways/backwards passing * no ’pinging’ the ball wing to wing; and * no penetration in the opposition’s final third. Substitions have been obscure. Is the influence of Butch still considered a coincidence? Very unlikely. So here we are - struggling again as per the Jol days. Much improved at the back but still shipping goals and left wondering how we are going to score any. And what of our three ’managers’? Rene was a breath of fresh air and appeared to be working well with Kit alongside of him. Curbs, to be honest, no idea what he does. Butch has a ring of the ’same old, same old’ about him. Remember the story when he was fired by us first time around? He went to Harrods to ask why and Al Fayed said he didn’t know him from Adams!! I for one, was content with one man in control. At least I knew where to point the finger.
So the heavily depressed footballer goes to the Doctor's hoping for a magical cure. Doctor says "just get a better contract and all will be well" I now know Michael Jackson was murdered by his doc, it wasn't a fatal injection though, just bad advice about his finances. And one to pass on to the Unions too, brilliant.
I would go with C58 here... Three cooks etc. Rene managed to get Berba playing when we were 4-3-3 which meant that we were 11 on the pitch... Now again 10. 1/2 Berb and 1/2 Dempsey
I partially attribute this to us lacking a passing midfielder who can put them through if they play on the shoulder - it's even worse when we play with no width, as we did at the beginning of this season and a few times recently. When Bent joined I was impressed with his movement - he was trotting back toward the defender, spinning, and sprinting forward so that, if a player could put him through, he would have a yard on the defender. Neither Sidwell or Parker are creative enough to put the ball where he wants it - if we still had Murphy then I think we could have got more from Bent. If we play with a bit of width then we can mask this weakness slightly as the wingers offer an easier option to the CM's in terms of completing the pass- and if they press down the line then the attacker can expect the ball to come in front of them as a cross - either from the winger or the full back who should be offering an option behind (Reither and Dejegah do this very well). We do need a new striker though, preferably someone with technical ability (doesn't have to be Berba standard) and some determination to put the defence under pressure. If we go with Berba and Dempsey it draws Sidders out (as C58 has posted previously), leaves Parker isolated and we get overwhelmed. If we continue with the 4-3-3 Kaca and Dejegah with a new striker who will run about and finish then we should be able to get by with our central mids, although ideally I'd like to see us bring in another Murphy style player, along with a left back, striker and a left winger. It's just been a comedy of errors this season that wouldn't be so tragic if it relegation didn't look so likely. I've seen 'square pegs, round holes' written a few times and you can apply this to various facets of the club. Owner - we need an early days Al Fayed figure until the Academy has been running at A status for atleast 5 years - then self-sufficiency is realistic and we can start to draw income from player sales along with usual avenues, aside from Dembele, no team is paying money for our players. Instead Khan comes in looking for the club to run itself financially so that he can use it as a platform to promote his NFL team. The increased money from TV rights which other clubs have put toward transfers has instead gone missing, either being held for the stadium, being used to cover the loan that Khan repaid (but will presumably be recouped from next installment) or it's on its way out of the club. Money from player sales hasn't shown either. The skeptic in me thinks Khan isn't too worried about relegation because the TV rights deal also influences the parachute payments for clubs. Manager - I like Rene and, despite some odd selections and substitutions, think that it is possible to improve the areas he's weak in. If he was a bad communicator or just a t**t who doesnt take any responsibility for his mistakes (like Jol) then I would be more worried, but the basics are there- he just needs to learn on the job. It's far from ideal but he has my support. As for the other two - Wilkins seems to be in a player liaison role and is in and around the dressing room. I'm not sure if he's needed. Curbishley is watching games from the stand, presumably feeding in at half time from his perspective and otherwise I'm not entirely sure. The money that's being spent on one of them (and if we are to be self-sufficient every penny is precious) is being wasted and could be better diverted to improving personnel. It doesn't matter how good the coach is, there has to be some quality. Players - Do I need to say anything on this - we brought in too many free or loan guys that play in positions we don't even have in our current formation. Money is being wasted on big wages for no product. Berba is corrosive and signalled the end of team based approach that Roy had so much joy with to a psuedo-Ajax system of total football with fluidity and individual skill. As it turned out there was no skill, no team, no football.
2WS, I agree with you thoughts entirely. I'm not being critical of RM, I do think that perhaps he has changed formation due to the influence of the other staff. At the end of th3 day we've got what we've got and we have to work with that. He doesn't help himself though by his continual playing of Berbatov in a role that doesn't work, 2 man midfield and subs that baffle the bejesus out of me? Nice background story on yourself as well.
You have a very good point there silky. May be berbatov needs a passing centre mid to pick him out. Without meaning to state the obvious though, berbatov cannot play in our current set up. Having just watched the first half highlights on match choice his contribution typifies him. When we did not have the ball he stands still and watches whilst the centre backs pick out passes and when we have the ball he drops too deep, when we counter he was nowhere to be seen. Judging from what I saw, had we a striker willing to put a shift in we would have created more goal attempts and broken down some of their passing game. I was always taught to defend from the front, it takes some pressurd off the whole team
