Sir Les doesn't like them apparently. Tottenham coach Les Ferdinand believes the holding midfielder is an unnecessary staple in many of today's football teams. The former Spurs and England striker, who is now part of the coaching team at Tottenham headed by Tim Sherwood, has bemoaned a 'crop' of players who don't want to cross the halfway line. He told the Tottenham and Wood Green Journal: “I know there’s a lot of talk about holding midfield players, and I’m always arguing with Tim and Chris (Ramsey) about this – and they agree,” he said. “I don’t like holding midfield players. I like players to understand that if one goes forward, the other one tucks in for them. I don’t want someone who just sits in front of the back four and doesn’t go anywhere. I was saying to William Gallas when he was here, the worst thing that happened in this league was Claude Makelele. He added: “When Makelele came into this country he wasn’t a holding midfield player. He was a player who had the intelligence to say ‘Frank [Lampard], you can score more goals than me so if you go I’m going to tuck in here for you, and I’ll hold. You keep going forward’. “Then everyone went ‘right, we’ve got to have a holding midfield player’ - and what we’ve done is produce a crop of players who don’t want to go over the halfway line, who don’t want to pass over the halfway line and are happy to just sit in front of the back four. The 47 year-old's view may give us some insight into why last summer's £9m signing, Etienne Capoue has been told he can leave White Hart Lane this month after being deemed surplus to requirements by the current regime. Tottenham face Manchester Ciy on Wednesday night and Ferdinand believes the success of Spurs' opponents vindicates his view. “People say Yaya Toure is a holding midfielder. No he isn’t, he’s getting forward and getting goals - but if someone else goes he’ll stay in there. “Fernandinho’s scoring goals. Why? Because he’s a holding player? No. They’ve just got an understanding: ‘If he goes, I’ll hold, and if I go he’ll hold’.” Source: http://www.standard.co.uk/sport/foo...e--tottenham-coach-les-ferdinand-9090259.html I sort of agree and disagree with him on this one. I liked Makelele, he was disciplined and it allowed him to hone his defensive skills making him the best in the game at what he did. On the other hand I said at the start of the season that top clubs were moving away from a holding midfielder, or that they are at least being asked to contribute more to the overall game. It's partly down to the rise of 4231 as a formation, which renewed more a partnership feel in midfield but any line up that's flexible enoud can accomodate a partnership. Bayern look like they have Lahm as a holding player but for all his defensive uses he's also one of Bayern's main outlets, controlling the pace of the game and their formation is so fluid that you often see them in a 4411 without the ball. Anyway, I still think having a midfielder with more defensive responsibility is important as it provides a stable base for the defence and midfield to work around, you don't want to be constantly looking for your midfield partner on the pitch so a holding midfielder keeps things simple which is important as partnerships don't form overnight. Looks like a 4 in the midfield is the tactic of choice Ferdinand at least and I wouldn't be surprised if it was for Sherwood too.
Never rated Ferdinand as a coach and with comments like that looks like I'm right. Sooner he's off our coaching staff the better.
A bit of a backlash to having to live with AVB's ideas maybe? He was so in favour of holding midfielders we saw Dembele panic when he crossed the halfway line pass the ball sideways and hurry back to his alloted position. The Dutch showed us all how to play modern football in the 1970's and the key element is surely flexibility. Before that Ramsey wanted his forwards to track back and help in defence. With all the thought that is applied to the game it's not surprising that some come up with negative strategys forgetting that the whole point is to score goals NOT just stop the opposition.
Really bizarre misunderstanding of what a holding player is, possibly from playing in a side with Freund! Would anyone say that his description fits any of our current midfielders? I don't think it does.
Has he spoke to Sandro? Today's formations tend to be focused on players interchanging, especially with the top teams but I still like the classic 442 or 4411 where you need protection of the back four. A holding midfielder can be the creative spark, as to win the ball back he then starts any attacking move. Yaya toure has changed his game anyway, he's moved on from being a DM, but he used to be a DM, having Ferdnandinho allows Toure to attack but City are dominant usually and attack with speed so it's easy for such players to push forward. Chelsea use Luiz as a DM but he can interchange with forward players. For me a Defensive Midfielder is still needed, ideally someone with a good engine that can protect the back four but also support forward play when needed.
Not everybody on a football team can necessarily be a creator, there is, in the game, a need for stoppers or destroyers. The very best anticipate the opposition play, break it up, and then distribute the ball intelligently to their own more attack orientated teammates. Unfortunately, the number of really good ones is very limited, but gold dust if you can find one, IMO.
"what we’ve done is produce a crop of players who don’t want to go over the halfway line, who don’t want to pass over the halfway line and are happy to just sit in front of the back four." No good team has a player like this though, really worrying that someone with that view is a coach of the team I support.
Seems a bit of a naive statement to me. Football can be played in many different ways and a team which has one style, one plan, will be nowhere near as successful as a team that can change and adapt as needs must. I can understand what he means, Frings and Ballack did the interchanging very successfully for Germany in the late 90's/early 00's, but does anybody honestly think that a midfield of Dembele, Eriksen, Townsend and Lamela (for arguments sake) would stand a Man City onslaught if we were winning by one goal with 15mins to go? If we were to play Barcelona, wouldn't you utilise a player like Capoue to mark and harry Messi for 90mins? Sure as hell wouldn't go with 4 in midfield against them..... So, a bit naive from Les there. And sounds worringly unflexible way of thinking.
Very true. Having a variety of ways to attack a team is important. Barcelona are the experts in passing the ball but teams were always going to find ways to stop them and make their life difficult. It's a tribute to just how good their players are that it took so long to stop them and that they are still one of the best handful of teams in Europe. The less planning a team can do against you the better, if your plan is clear, like "get the ball to Bale", or "pass them to death" there can be special treatment given to counter it and it then becomes a case of trying to grind down a team over 90 minutes, hoping to tire them or waiting for a mistake.
Defensive midfielders are evolving in my opinion. Yaya went from being a solid DM to the best box-to-box midfielder in European football but there's also been a good few that are similar/ becoming similar: Arturo Vidal Paulinho Blaise Matuidi Moussa Sissoko Sandro Ramires Sven Bender Schweinsteiger Marchisio I think as football evolves so do certain types of players and these guys are prime examples.
The only two players I would take out of that list are Marchisio and Paulinho as I see them as more box to box midfielders. Paulinho is too much of a pansy to play as a DM! although a talented player! But then it depends on how you view a DM, as like you say they are evolving, some convert a playmaker to a DM, Take Huddlestone, hes been operating as a DM at times for Hull, he breaks up play but then you have Livermore who is the engine. you could argue at times they both operate as a DM at various times depending on their positions on field.
Ferdinand is right in that you just need _someone_ to do the job at any given time, not necessarily a guy who is there just for that. In the same way that a striker is not there _just_ to put the ball in the net
A "DM" expects to do most of his work breaking up attacks between his box and the halfway line. And then quickly passing out to his own attack. If there is the opportunity to take the ball unchallenged much closer to the opposition box, then they will do so. Ferdinand has confused the basic concept with the attacking MF this season, who under AVB had that paralysing fear of taking the ball further up the pitch lest they lost possession.
Perhaps Les could explain why the filth down the road are doing so much better defensively with Flamini back in the side? Holding Mid's integral to their side that don't do much over the halfway line... Alonso Lucas Mascherano Flamini Barry
Glad you put Barry in that list Notso. I'm one of very few people amongst my mates that rates Barry. Think he's very efficient at what he does, all I ever get from them is "he's crap!", surely a guy with a Prem winners medal and who was pivotal to City's recent rise cannot be seen as "crap"?! Even at the start of the season, few of my Gooner mates were really pissed off when Barry was linked with them at one point, I was thinking "he could be exactly what they needed" so was glad it was a no-goer. Though unfortunately they've got Flamini in who's done a great job.
He allowed Yaya Toure to develop his forward game at City, it certainly hasn't happened with Fernandinho overnight this season. I'm same as you, I think he's a solid, reliable player, Evertons AM's have certainly benefitted from his arrival. Unfashionable players usually do get stick mate, it becomes a bandwagon for the clueless after that, seen it happen to many good players.
I have no comeback for that! I think people that don't watch players like Barry automatically assume he's poor because he's never amongst the goals and headlines. Little do they realise, that like you say, it's because of him that others can flourish in the attacking areas.
Same goes for Darren Fletcher, who got stick from Man Utd fans for years because they failed to understand what use he is to the team. The way their fans have rounded on Carrick in the last couple of seasons is eerily similar.
