Some managers are better off having no money. In his first season, DJ developed a reasonable team built on journey-men and offcasts. As things moved forward the improvements were disproportionately smaller. The same with MM. He arrived to be greeted by 10 1st team pros and got in the likes of Cowie, Conway, Gunner and Kiss for little money and moved us forward. Once he had money to spend he blew it. There are a few managers around like that, Mark Hughes and Tony Pulis amongst others. They do a great job with little outlay (Pulis got little return from his bigger buys) but struggle once they get to a certain point. Hopefully OGS will get value for money. If his two Norwegian signings are half they are cracked up to be, he'll be off to a good start. Saying that, he's talking Cornelius up. Hopefully he will come good.
There was a debate after the Stoke game in particular that that was a wasted opportunity, but that it didn't matter that much as surely City would go for it at Palace. Those 4 away games in a row were terrible. 2 points against teams around us. No goals scored. Pathetic and all attributable to Mackay's defensive attitude. There is no now room for error. All the home games versus bottom half teams have to be won, and maybe City will be more offensive away from home and surprise us with good results at eg WBA, Saints & Swansea. New faces though are essential, especially up front and at full back, and at centre back and in midfield....
I take it you're happy with our 'keepers then. I'd be happy with an out and out winger and a back to goal striker. I think that would keep us up and allow OGS to take stock in the summer.
City have one of those in Noone, do you mean another one? I think Bellamy playing wide will be better with Eikrem playing instead of Whittingham. As for back to goal striker, do you mean a target man? If so your formation has to be 4-4-2 doesn't it?
Sorry Nin, should have been more specific. Wingers, yes, another to go with Noone. Not saying I'd start both as I think Bellamy on the left is his best position and will strengthen the team. We need a squad, so if Noone tires we can make a like for like swap or if we are chasing a game we throw the kitchen sink at them. As for a 'back to goal striker', someone who will take the ball to feet and hold the ball up. I'd still play 451 / 433, but it gives us an out. Jay was a lazy bugger but played the role well. With the likes of Noone, Bellamy, Mutch, Kim, Eikrem or even Mason, we have a number of players who can get beyond the front man. Doesn't have to be a tall man to lump the ball high to, just someone who is comfortable facing his own goal and bringing other players into the game. It would take the pressure off the defence and help us retain the ball.
This is a valid OPINION....but one that is a load of B****x in my OPINION. I'm not saying Mckay was perfect in any way but his defensive attitude got us credible & acceptable results until Tan publicly shafted him - people seem to foget that until Tan alienated Mckay AND the players we were sitting pretty half a dozen points above the drop zone & with winnable fixtures ahead (including those against Villa Stoke and Palace). Most of the goals scored against us v W. Ham & Man City were due to our mid-field lying too far up the field allowing the opposition to exploit the gap between attack and defense. Would Malky's 'defensive attitude' have allowed this to happen? Malky's biggest mistake IMHO (apart from not cowing down to Tan) was his delay in introducing Mutch & Noone. However maybe this was his tactic - lay a solid foundation by playing defensively (this was achieved) & then introduce the flair players (this he was doing - Mutch was playing regularly & he had just introduced Noone). I maintain our current prdicament is not down to Malky's 'defensive attitude', but to an alarming dip in form initiated by Tan alienating Mckay AND the players. Please don't slag me off for going over old ground (which I admit I am), but the title of this thread is A statement which I obviously disagree with.......I'd rather go with 'We should never have sacked him in the first place, but now we have lets thank him for what he acheived & move on with our new gaffer'.
We need to look forward not back. The change has been made and OGS is the man in the hot seat. There is obviously a lot more to this than meets the eye, things we will probably never know. It does seem a bit of a coincidence that after being out of the picture for months with a mystery injury, the minute MM is out the door Bellamy is fit and raring to go. Was there a fall out between Bellamy and MM? Probably best left alone and just be grateful he's back and looking fit.
A LOT, LOT more.......... Tan is epitomised as the evil dictator weilding the axe, whilst Malky has been adorned with more halos than Simon Templar. A bit of both is more likely the truth, and unless either party makes a more detailed public statement of events since the start of this season (very unlikely), there it will remain. As mentioned above, it's time to move on. It's been said many times before that there is very little loyalty from any quarter in this big money business that football has become. That includes players, managers and owners in equal proportions. We are where we are - Ole and staff in charge of the football side replacing Malky and staff, with one common factor carrying on, and that is it's Tan's money that's still on the line. As supporters of a club, we can moan and groan pontificating about off-field events affecting performances - I personally doubt that very much. Players do not deliberately play badly - they are in the main a very self centred bunch who will always want to further their own ambitions - and why not? Others believe the problem had far more to do with tactics employed and relations between the manager and players but that's conveniently played down by those that saw Malky as the victim in all this without wanting to consider anything else. It's not only us that should be grateful for getting to the Premier League, Malky should be too. He was backed all the way and used his undoubted skills at that level to achieve an ambition that was as much his as was the clubs'. He put himself in the shop window receiveing all the plaudits going and has now left the club in a precarious position playing the sympathy card. Spending cash made available to on some very dubious purchases wouldn't have been tolerated at many a club. It exposed a flaw in his makeup as a viable top flight manager at this stage of his career and he paid the price.
Not very subtle I'm afraid Spark. I thought you were trying to say, in fact you did say, time to move on but it seemed to get lost in further Malky bashing. Clearly this is still an emotive subject for us all.
Malky done a great job getting us up, don't think anyone could argue with that since we are here. His football has always left something to desire though, and what worked in the championship wasn't working so well in the PL, add that to the sometimes dire football and you will have discourse amongst the fans. Malky was always happy for the team to have a go against opposition that looked all over winners against us before a ball was kicked, and we got some good results from that, but I felt eventually not picking up points against near rivals would send us where we are now anyway, but with no hope of getting out using his methods of play. All managers pick up a few lemons, malky is no exception, but the Corny signing is simply inexplicable and hard to find a good enough reason to justify spending so much on him. I think the real test for malky will be his next job, you would think if he is truly regarded as such a great manager his next job would be a PL side, but perhaps he has made owners a bit wary, time will tell.
...........sorry Bobby, just can't help myself putting my fivepennorth in. Sweet - you are spot on about Malky's next job being a real test for him. I think he will probably need to repeat this past two seasons effort at another Championship club. If he does, I hope he has the same resources at his disposal as this time. He didn't make a huge impact at Watford before moving to us. In all fainess to the guy, he inherited a decimated squad from the Jones era and rebuilt it to a good Championship standard over the two seasons. The problem is moving on from there.
I was referring to those 4 away games in isolation. Mackay put on the field a team with the sole aim of getting either a series of 0-0's or sneak a 1-0 win. City did not have the players with the ability to do that. It was the substitution of Campbell for Odemwinghie at Stoke which was the final straw for me. The game was 0-0 with 20 odd minutes to go, and Stoke were there for the taking yet the made a like for like change. In hindsight it was a huge error to not bring in technical support from someone with PL coaching experience to assist him. Plus he should have brought in a few more experienced PL players instead of relying on the championship standard of eg Cowie, Connelly, Taylor, Gunnarsson, Gestade etc. Are there enough games left to see us safe?
A sacked manager would always be an emotive subject. Malky was a fans favourite because he was not DJ, he spent no time to get the fans on his side, fist pump and all. This was aided by some of the things said by the press about Tan (his own worst enemy) Players brought in. Andrew Taylor Filip Kiss Don Cowie Kenny Miller Robert Earnshaw ? Craig Conway Rudy Gestede Aron Gunnerson Joe Mason Ben Turner Kadeem Harris Elliot Parish Liam Lawrence (Loan) Joe Lewis Matthew Connolly Kim Bo-Kyung Craig Noone Jordon Mutch Simon Lappin Etien Velikonia Tommy Smith Heider Helguson Nicky Maynard Frazier Campbell Craig Bellamy Leon Barnett (Loan) Kerim Frie (Loan) Kevin Sainte-Luce Simon Moore Steven Caulker John Brayford Kévin Théophile-Catherine Maximiliano Amondarain Gary Medel Andreas Cornelius Peter Odemwingie I've try not to put those that come from the academy before Malky signed so I might of misses a few. How many are good/bad signings ?
More Malky bashing Dai? Getting a bit boring now. Maybe your bias tainted question should ask how many were good enough to get us out of the Championship.
Just my opinion Bob, if we all had the same opinion this message board would by a bit dull. Won't argue with you about the Championship yes they were good enough but things move on and in the Prem we have been found wanting.
Bob - why are you picking on posters giving their opinions? It's only people's thoughts on his tenure, and not absolute FACT - we'll leave that to the Forest guys.............. It could equally be said that the constant defence of all things Malky borders on his deification. In many's opinion there's been far too much Malky "supporting" rather than this alleged Malky bashing going on in the media let alone on here. Every football channel you watch has got a presenter and pundit or two saying how shamefully he's been treated. They're using the situation as it's newsworthy and attracts public attention. Most who think that have no idea at all about what's gone on behind the scenes - they're just following the Tan "bashing" bandwagon that's become fashionable with no inside knowledge at all.
Wasn't Taylor one of DJ's? There needs to be some context around this, including the time they were brought in and the cost in terms of wages and signing fees. I've not put specifics agains all of them but tried to categorise players. All in all, when he had no money he did OK with signings (some out of necessity). When he had some money the signings seemed ok (Kim, Mutch, Noone all look value for money now though it has taken a while). When there was cash available, things started to look a bit iffy. Some good signings though even those look expensive if the numbers are to be believed. Good signings, though we might have paid over the odds: Craig Bellamy Kévin Théophile-Catherine Gary Medel Kim Bo-Kyung Craig Noone Jordon Mutch Good signings when we had a wafer thin squad, though probably time to move on include or already have: Filip Kiss Don Cowie Craig Conway Rudy Gestede Matthew Connolly Tommy Smith Heider Helguson Leon Barnett (Loan) Kerim Frie (Loan) Kenny Miller Robert Earnshaw Signings that are still OK as squad players at least until something better comes along: Joe Mason Ben Turner Joe Lewis Aron Gunnerson Frazier Campbell - probably better value than Maynard at £650k Not really good enough at any time, but in some cases did we have better options. Simon Lappin Peter Odemwingie Should never have signed them: Etien Velikonia John Brayford Not enough game time for one reason or another. Nicky Maynard - injury - seems expensive Andreas Cornelius - very expensive Were worth a punt and may still come good. Kadeem Harris Elliot Parish Kevin Sainte-Luce Simon Moore Maximiliano Amondarain
Saint Luce was shown the door last year after that conviction for assault. I think he went to Ardley at Wimbledon.
