Hate to say it aswell but there's always a mentality of the English especially amongst younger people that we are the best no matter what, even if thats ridiculous, a lot of it comes from the media like the Sun- unfortunately people buy into that crap and celebrity culture.
Their squad is split into two parts, the last squad selected(which is the 22) and the members of the squad who've been called up in the last twelve months(but were not in the last squad, for whatever reason), there's a total of 46 players listed of which 23 play in the Dutch leagues(the second list includes the likes of van Bommel, van der Vaart, Sneijder, van Nistelrooy and Babel, so probably best not ignored). Half of 46 was 23 last time I looked.
Oh you're using that list now, just that earlier you were using the current 22s, I was aiming for consistency. As I've said before, you can use stats to back up anything you want, there's no point in reeling out line after line of useless stats. The theory I had on English players playing abroad was just a theory, I put no statistical research into it. Next time I have an idea I'll check it against the inside source of Wikipedia.
You pulled me up on limiting things to the last squad, so I switched to the full squads. There's no pleasing some people. Anyway, I accept that you hadn't really thought it through and we'll say no more about it.
I merely enquired as to which squad you were using. This is true, though I still believe it makes a difference.
I've got to say that in my opinion having players playing in different leagues can only be a good thing as far as the national team is concerned. When the French side was all conquering in '98 and 2000 the majority of their players played abroad. The '98 World Cup winning team had team had the following. Bartez- Monaco Lizarazu-Munich Le Boef-Chelsea Desailly-Milan Thuram-Parma Petit-Arsenal Zidanne-Juve Djorkaef-Inter Deschamps-Juve Karembeu-Madrid Givarche-Auxerre Subs. Viera-Arsenal Bhogassian-Sampdoria Dugarry-Barcelona That's two from 14 who actually played in France.IMO that team would give the current Spanish team one hell of a game. If my memory serves me well Zidanne actually stated that the reason the French were so good was partly down to the experience of having players playing all over Europe. What struck me about the team on Wiki was did they really only have 3 subs back then and where are Henry ,Pirez and Trezeguet ? I also agree with the comment about our players swanning around like big time charlies thinking they are gods gift with their tattoo's and ear rings,step forward Ashley Cole and friends.Our culture lends itself to these toss pots being more bothered about getting to China White or some other swanky club then staying in and looking after themselves properly like they do abroad. Only this week Van Percy said he was shocked at the Attitude of the players in England and he's hardly a saint is he ? A stint abroad would do a lot of them the world of good.You've got to give Mancienne credit for going to Hamburg, again IMO.
That was the famous French side that won with no strikers, Givarche was ****e, dont think he scored all tournament but they didnt need him, obviously Le Boeuf only got a game because of the cheating bastard from Croatia (forgot his name)
Givarche was indeed an absolute pile of dogger, couldn't hit a donkeys arse with a banjo but as you say they had enough quality from mid field to bang 'em in. Great team to watch, Zidanne is in my all time top two players, the other being the fat cheating drug riddled Argie. Can't remember what happened with the Croatia player and Le Blanc though ?
NFUNo2 I think you could probably find quite a few examples of successful national teams who had players that played in other countries leagues, but that's mainly because they were countries with a decent football heritage, but a poor domestic league. France, Argentina, Brazil and Holland probably all fall into this category, though the South Americans don't really have poor leagues, they just can't compete with the wages in Europe. There's no doubt that there was a lot of talent in that French team, I'd say Zidane was the best player in the world at that time, but I think they were a bit lucky that other teams weren't on their game around that time, there's a few mediocre players mixed in there.
Blanc even. Who would you say was average in that team ? You could argue Spain has one or two average players, Ramos and Pique aren't all that clever .
You coild also argue that Spain were a bit lucky , at the last World Cup the standard was awful.Thet managed to win the tournamnet having scored 7 goals I think. In '98 the Argies,Holland, Italy, Brazil and even England had teams capable of playing some good stuff. I can't think of anyone from last years World Cup,it was the worse one I can remember .
Well i maybe a bit behind on the discussion but a few points. - Did i watch a different game to all of you, England u21's drew against Spain, has anyone ever mentioned that? And tbh neither goal should of stood. Did either side really create anything? No. Did Spain do anything probing with the ball? No. Does keeping the ball for half an hour make you good? No. When City kept the ball like that at the back for half a game they got booed..... - Barcelona playing passing football is not what makes them what they are, individual brilliance, their pressing and their movement do. They have to many great indiviuals, and they are miles ahead of everyone. Last time i checked the second most successful team in the world recently it Manchester United. England constantly have the top four in the knockout stages of the CL, pretty muchy every time for the past 8 years. We have dominated the semi's and quarters for the past half a decade at least, what on earth is this England in decline all about? Just because we do not have the current best side in the world doesn't mean our teams are in decline.
Definitely agree with this, everyone is a bit keen to go crazy about Barca/Spain because we know they're great sides, but in that game Spain did nothing special as you say. They just kept the ball and did nack all with it.
