Did I say he was one of the best in the world? No. But does that mean he's still a quality/classy defender? yes. Please don't tell me you're going to get on my back over my wording, and nit pick just like you have with everyone else on here? give it a rest, no one's bothered.
I didn't suggest anything about Barca. someone else did and for the record, there's rumours Barca want him, hence my "probably" reply to SOS.
I haven't seen any links for him to Barca for over a month now, and even those were daily fail worthy.
It's kind of distracting from the point though, isn't it? Your assertion was that you couldn't be good enough for Barcelona if you're not one of the best centre backs in the World. As PNP stated, you can because Mascherano plays regularly for them in that position. Infact I'm watching them now with Mascherano and Puyol at the back and I doubt there's a team in the top 6 of the Premier League that would play that as centre back partnership. And that brings me on to my next point... There's a lot to be said for the style of player and suitability. The most extreme example is probably Luiz, who looks like a top defender for Brazil but at Chelsea he's outperformed by 2 centre backs that wouldn't get anywhere near Brazil's starting line ups. I think it's pretty obvious Vertonghen's pretty well suited to what Barca seem to like in their defenders and I've no doubt he'd get plenty of games were he in their squad.
Best in the world playing for Barca? is that what Barca thought they where getting when they signed Alex Song.
Fair point. After reading back I can also see my assertion that you implied he was good enough to play for Barca was not fair anyway so I've got no leg to stand on. Still, my opinion stands that he's about the same standard as Vermaelen.
I think it's very hard to judge who the best CB(s) in world football is/ are these days. In my opinion, the Premier League and Bundesliga are the hardest leagues for CB's, but that doesn't mean CB's in other leagues are necessarily inferior. Take the Prem for example, there are players in mid-to-bottom half teams that in my opinion, could play for a top 6 side in another country. The likes of Lovren, Bassong, Olsson, Shawcross, Chico Flores and likely a few others I've forgotten are players who I feel could play for a bigger team abroad yet would struggle to make most of the top 7 sides first XI over here. I do personally rate Vertonghen as one of the best in Europe, as I said it's hard for me to say who I think is THE best but I'd put Vertonghen in the same bracket as the likes of Vidic, Kompany, Terry, Koscielny, Mertesacker, Chiellini, Barzaghli, a fit Kaboul, Thiago Silva, Pique, Ramos, Hummels, Subotic, Boateng, Dante and I'm sure there's others I've missed.
It's just hard full stop to rate defenders. Strikers it's easier because they can do things on their own and have individual scoring rates that impress. But defenders are judged on keeping clean sheets and that's significantly linked to tactics and the whole defensive unit. Take our defence for example. Mert and Kosc this year look outstanding. But I don't think they're any better than they were two years ago. They've just clearly been given some excellent tactical training by Bould and others. It's hard to make yourself look a good defender without other good defenders around you, at least someone in midfield who defends and at least someone on the coaching team who knows what they're talking about.
Yeah I think the more you play together the better your understanding becomes. You've had the same back four - Sagna, Mert, Kos, Gibbs (five including Wojciech) - for the best part of 3 years now since Clichy departed and I think that a settled back line is key to solid defensive performances. That's been our problem, we've not had a settled back four for years now and some of the goals we've leaked have been so basic it's frustrating beyond belief. The last I remember us having a relatively settled back line, we broke a home record in goals conceded for a season (9 if I remember rightly) with Corluka, Woodgate, King, Ekotto as the regular selection.
LOL... in all honesty Verts is good but I actually think he's a bit suspect defensive wise, as is Vermaelen. They are both too attack minded, they are always trying to spot a chance to attack and as such it means they switch off. It's rare you get attack minded centre backs who also remain solid in defence but when you do, they tend to be pretty special!
I'm in two minds on this one. On the one hand having a settled back-line is got to be good, but when the inevitable injury comes along it means the player coming in is very rusty. My solution is to play a settled system while rotating the players a lot.
Its easier to rotate if you are good, or winning comfortably, which we have rarely done over the last 1.5 seasons. If you ar 2 or 3 up then there is relatively little risk in bringing on your back-up defenders for the last 20mins to keep them game ready and to aid them in having _some_ sort of partnership with the other first choices.
CBs are hard to rate because a partnership of two above-average players at CB can outperform two world class players who have never played there together before IMO. So much of that position is reading the game, both the opposition and those on your team, and knowing what your partner is going to do and knowing how to react.
I think it depends how the back ups are managed. If you're a club like us that has European competition to offer plus the domestic cups, there's a lot of potential games to keep your back ups more than match fit.
I'm also in the agreement of a settled back four as cup games, be that domestic or European are enough for match fitness and while that doesn't help a player develop an understanding, you can't have it all. The best we can hope for is have a settled back four that performs and when our back up are called upon we can only hope they perform, you can never be sure unless it's an experienced defender who is used to being called upon.
