Let's face it, too many people are getting over-excited by our performance against Spurs. Yes it was good and yes it made us very happy but it has to be put into perspective. Spurs were a footballing replica of the England Test Side - they made the opposition look far better than they actually were! Allen looked good in the midfield against Spurs but he was surrounded by players that also looked very good on the day and played against an opposition that was completely shell-shocked!
I actually think you bought the wrong player. Britton is the better all rounder imo, obviously far older, but I'm sure Rodgers wanted Allen as much for the fact that he knew his system & was a 'friendly face' in the dressing room, than for his overall ability. Barry is one of those player that you don't appreciate unless he plays for your side, for me he's our player of the season so far. The way he reads the game, anticipates danger, breaks up play, wins the second ball & always seems to be in the right place at the right time, is text book DM play. Plus he's a model professional, who I'm sure has a positive impact on the youngsters on the periphery of the squad.
Allen has provided more balance to our midfield - it's not perfect but it has helped. There are other areas of the team that require far more attention/criticism than Allen for example: Both full back positions RCB DM Allen is not a liability and has at least made a contribution whilst working hard for the cause.
Not me mate, I wouldn't have Gerrard or Hendo (or Allen) anywhere near the deeper role. Allen or especially Hendo but I just can't be arsed arguing with MITO about that one Hendo looks a hundred times better playing further forward and Allen and Gerrard look a bit better playing further forward too. We need someone else to either better Lucas in that role or at least give him some competition for his place. As for most of the criticism of Allen it seems pretty fair to me. He's not done well enough in his 18 months at Anfield for his place in the squad not to be under threat. That doesn't mean he's a write off it just means he needs to improve and quickly. Yes he has played better recently, he certainly wasn't helped by being played too deep and yes he's not been helped by the injuries but that's the life of a footballer. If we want to start getting a top four spot regularly and start challenging for titles we either need an Allen who is vastly improved or a player who is an improvement on him (and of course he's not alone in that).
Stop it Billy!! We both know that AT HIS VERY BEST he's not going to make any more than a squad player. It's not his fault but he just doesn't have what it takes. So get rid and find a new alternative.
I don't agree with the get rid idea Dave even though I'm not his biggest fan (and I've probably said he can **** off in the past ). I've no problem with him as a squad player at the moment and if we do get Europe next season we will need to be building a bigger squad not be dismantling it (again). We need to find a long term replacement for Gerrard soon and for me that should take precedent, Allen is only 23 and it's incredibly rare for a midfielder to peak until mid to late 20s so he has time to develop. His wages aren't ridiculous so unless we are desperate for cash I see no need to get rid right now. Football is a confidence game and we've all seen players improve dramatically after a run of good performances often looking like completely different players a few weeks after looking abject ****e. None of us genuinely know how he'll develop (even though we have our suspicions) but that call is for BR to make and he knows the lad better than anyone so I guess we have to trust his judgement.
both are average barry is a kicker who was a decent left full made into a holding midfielder. he might read the game but has not pace and fouls. still average, especially since hes' on loan to you! hokk taken... i caught a whopper and i even told you i was fishing
Well you are right about RB, johnson is aging, past 4 games have been awful and no contract will be signed. RCB. well unitl we sell.... we've loads there. i would not debate if they are top 4 quality either as skertl isn't and toure is old but was. and ilori doesn't look too good i nthe reserves Dm... not DM say holding midfield, please? pretty please... i want creativity there too, all areas of the pitch need creativity.
well the whole europe thing is a reasonable argument too. that is fair enough.. depending on what level of competition it is on the day he plays of course.... its especially true of gerrard's aging legs. if can't play two a week... no way so someone's got to fill in... but again its when we get someone better not making do IMO. to get to the top we need to have that ruthlessness. Paisley did, shankly learned it having elt one team age... dalglish let his side age... we must not allow someone hang round if not good enough. same for reserves, morgan has gone. coady looks like he won't make it. let them go when it suits us. thats life yeah?
Haha you know what I meant. I think it's called the Regista role ... the controller. M'Vila is perfect for the role - defensive but with the ability to start attacks.
I don't think age is an issue with Allen yet MITO....or an issue for the squad at the moment as our average age this season is about 24 (West Ham got slated for putting out their "youth team" in the cup which was average age 23.3). Why would it suit us to let too many go? We already know we need a replacement for Gerrard soon, we all know at least one full back spot will need strengthening, the "holding area of midfield" still not totally convincing, we look light up top with a couple of injuries and we all still think the squad is a bit light as a whole anyway (to cope with Europe especially). So do we spend the summer doing a Spurs and trying to find 6 or 7 new first teamers AND get them to gel straight away? Personally I think we're better off focusing on other areas (for now) and try and get an improvement out of the likes of JA....and yes he really does need to improve. He probably isn't a long term solution but again as critical as I've been of the lad he has played a bit better the last few weeks and certainly hasn't looked as bad as at times last season (damned with faint praise). Average Joe he may be but for now he simply isn't our most pressing issue and that gives him a bit of leeway to fight for a place and improve his game. If he's no better in 12/18 months he'll be out and I'm sure he knows that.
yes thats the kind i mean. i try to now use the word holding to indicate a player told not to go off running up the pitch as it meets the resita role rodgers wants. no so much "strong in the tackle" as strong on the ball and well positioned to stop attacks. and box to box as the other 2 that rodgers wants. he says he flips the tirangle depending on opposition. my belief is henderson will make a good holding player cos he can get about left and right but more than that his movement for the cbs is great and his range of passing is coming on. I like when he is facing the opponents goal just behind the play and comes in to it and makes things happen. I think he just misses too much to be the guy making the extra man in the box getting on the end of stuff. I'll predict an england role for him like this eventually. its that or the bench with the likes of barkely around.
it isn't one. not for me. I am just pointing out that in the reserves we move guys on without too much of an issue. Age there is one of the big factors. With allen my thinking is that he is average, which again as i said is no crime, and as an average player its WHEN and not IF we replace him cos i don't see him improving that much that he's going to be a big shout for the first 11.... not if we want more than 6th anyway... on the summer and 6/7 buys. the thing is unless we sell suarez (which may well happen i don't know) we don't need to do that... but if you buy 3 players say... the three replaced become squad players. so say you buy an rb and two cms just say.... that means johnson and lucas sit on the bench min... maybe one of these signings does i dunno... but anyway you cut it if the likes of allen... and hell toss in borini as well are relied on by LFC after this season we will be not progressing as fast as we need to. standign still is regression. utd will spend 100mil, everton will loan more players (tobes ), city will spend 500mil, cheslea will sell and buy like mad, arsenal will spend that other 50mil, spurs will likely go bankrupt ... in short for LFc to get and hold even 4th we need to improve but we actually want titles. so we need to improve a lot.
Of course we need to improve you won't get any argument there. I guess it's a question of how quickly do we get/expect that improvement? No doubt we will spend again in Jan and the summer as will most of our rivals and we all know we can't compete in spending terms with Citeh or the Chavs so we have to do it wisely and build on THIS squad. Hence why I think Allen stays for now. Basically I think the ball is still in his court....can he rise to the challenge? As much as I have my doubts, the more we can get from the likes of him the better off we'll be. The big question is how much more can BR ring out of him (and Gerrard, Lucas and Hendo)?
Well billy i didn't expect us to be this close to the top this season nor to have this chance so we are doing ok. I think rodgers said its a 3 year thing earlier this year so i would expect that he means 4th by end of next season. It took city withh all their cash 4 years to get CL by going though two managers and sillyness with hughes and eriksen and all that. I think we are going along well but it can all dissipate in a year too. in short we have to add faster than players go. and the big one is suarez... followed by gerrard aging and retiring.... back in the day would you guys say that paisley owuld have kept gerrard in all the time or would he be one that would be told yer out.. I don't really know. what i do know is barkley is the next gerrard and everton better give him up!
Lol, J I was just joking about everyone playing holding midfielder as each of our existing 4 had been suggested by somebody in this thread to that point. At this point I view "this season" Lucas the same as Allen, doing an ok job but if doesn't improve we bring in the improvement. I think most seem to be in rough agreement here that eventually every existing midfielder we have with the possible exclusion of Hendo will be replaced if we are to become consistent CL participators. Which is why the pressure is on for BR and the transfer committee. They stated improvements only from now on. More of the same swapping in and out as Billy and Mito have stated is standstill. So I'm looking forward to seeing the players BR will bring in that resigns, Allen, Gerrard, Lucas, to the "squad" if they don't come or players that look the same as what we have keep wandering in then I'll be critical.
Was just going to say that. I think we are ahead of the curve that most of us expected us to be on this year. The Suarez effect if you like. To be really negative, I bet it worries BR slightly. If somehow we finish strongly and confidently within top 4 this year then can we get the squad together quality wise in the summer to stay there year after year while competing in it? Suarez proof our position so to speak. I think BR thought he had another year before worrying about it. Maybe not, maybe he was more ppositive than us lot just kept it quiet.
I'm already critical as i feel that alberto aspas and ilori did nothing to add to us. moses was a disappointment even though he ws not anyones first choice but a good option with no-one left available. cissohko was tired. that;s fair as a reserve LB option. being critical is not the same and not being supportive in general. I agree that we must be ahea dof whatever curve it is but i think its last january that did it most of all. suarez is doign as well now as before his latest ban and that always helps but we were in for 6th/7th no matter what due to the pre last january striking options. allen, borini, aspas et al represent average business that isn't going to cut it. coutinho is a 1 in a 1000 find that inter were MAD to let go and sturridge was good business as we tracked and sought him for months. I'd like us to have 2 or 3 that we are tracking for a good while who really will improve us. I mean shako like not aspas. i just didn't get it day one and it looks worse now. For me if we get 4th the problem of keeping it is a nice one. spurs couldn't do it. it'll be a huge task to rebuild to compete in it. Of course we have all on this forum look at the toilet down the road and wondered how the F they managed with the likes of rafael, evans, cleverly, carrick etc.. the reality is biting now. they are average prem players too. Ok ok so here's the thing on poor little joe.... mikel at cheslea = average to my mind, does a job. Cleverly at utd, same... the list would go on. ITs not that bad to be average but you'd rather a good player in there who's got some attirbute that makes him stand out.
As usual a little harsh there MITO. Every transfer has more than a little luck attached to it. When they work they are brilliant but both Sturridge and Coutinho's transfers couls easily not have worked out. However, I will defend Rodgers decision to buy 'stock' players like Allen, Aspas, Borini they are the necessary cover type purchases that every top club makes - if only to freshen up the squad. They carry the same risks as the headline signings but hopefully not the same financial risk. However, these types of players buy you more time to consider your options as a manager. Whereas the loanees have less than 6months in which to make an impact, the squad players will be there for your next season. You know more about their strengths and weaknesses so a manager should be able to shuffle them more effectively and they are costing you far less time and money whilst the club looks for the truly critical replacements that they have to make. We know and the whole of the football world knows that Rodgers has to find a replacement for Gerrard. There is no heir apparent within the club. There are few replacements within the Premiership - and the one already mentioned comes with both financial and allegiance problems. So I would not be surprised to see Rodgers either move dramatically this window or hold his fire until the Summer after next - all things being equal. This replacement is as critical as retaining Suarez. So over and above all of the other signings that he will make, the Gerrard replacement will define the success or otherwise of Rodgers as a manager of Liverpool.
