The only people who'll be eating any words on here are the ones like you who will finally have to admit that AT BEST he is no more than a squad player
Which what some said about Hendo, look at the fella now.. I'm not prepared to write-off the wee man just yet..
As I recall the people who doubted that Hendo was a sound investment were mostly Mancs and other assorted wums.
True, but I'm sure there were a few descenting voices on here too.. Hendo's range of passing is getting better by the game, he's chipping in with a fair few assists, add a few more goals and he'll be a hell of a player. I think Allen can do like wise, may not have the engine and physique of Hendo, but he's got the technical ability.
Sorry, just don't see it. When he came he could shuffle the ball about - usually sideways or backwards mark you. Now he can't be relied upon to do that. Certainly can't tackle. Looks upon the penalty area like outer space. Now if, as you say he can turn it round then good luck to the lad.
Joe is just another example of a new manager signing one of his former clubs players, sometimes it works sometimes it doesn't ala Fergie with Strachan etc. Joe will get more chances than Downing to prove himself but in the end if he ain't good enough that's the bottom line and he should be offloaded.
Allen is what I call a false-Gerrard. When Gerrard plays we generally have more dominance in the middle of the pitch, IF he is played beside Hendo and not beside Lucas. That is our best midfield until Gerrard is past it. The way we dominate is by letting Gerrard sit on the ball and play-make. He dictates play and starts most moves. In the absence of our skipper, we dont have a player like him. We don't have an anchor or a backbone to the midfield. They all have their roles but they can't put their mark on the game. Lucas is a stopgap and needs a strong defence/midfield ahead of him. Hendo is the workhorse who runs around doing the dirty work. Allen? Well, Allen keeps the ball out of our non-existent midfield. Its been moderately effective this season. His shuffling either hands it over to Suarez or usually back to Skrtel/Johnson. He does this quickly so that no one notices how lightweight we really are with the three of them. This won't work against dominant midfields. We need an upgrade that is less afraid to keep the ball.
magic... read your own quote... he played great v who? norwich... who suarez set upon by himself cos the rest of the team were average and west who? as for spurs... spurs were awful that night and we should all know that. Joe allen is not deserving of such praise based on a brief cameo for us. if he really performed for 10 games and hit to top boys with gusto sure... neither is he deserving of over criticism either. that said it is very patently obvious that the guy is not a top 4 player and never will be. no shame in that players like britton, osman or parker to name just a few (add cleverly to that) are not either. As for do better than sturridge... sure its called suarez but sturridge is delivering something that could make him a top 4 player so sure we can always 2do better" but to take a player well capable of showing top 4 ability and say its the same thing as a player who's about as average a prem midifelder as you can get and justify his presence is plain wrong. Sturrdige = made of glass but has real pace, presence and goals about him to be top 4. allen is tidy, reasonably tactically aware but hasn't got a range of passing nor a physical presence, nor the engine... nor the goals to be a top 4 midfielder.
Well he's never going to win then is he? You moan that it's "only Norwich" then dismiss his perfomances against Spurs and City.
I never mentioned his performance against city. I said suarez played norwich on his own, nobody else bar nobody did much in that game. nothing outstanding, nothing class, suarez made the difference. as for spurs... again... they were awful on the night... totally awful. I saw it they were all over the shop and lfc fans got way to carried away with that and even though i predicted us taking one single point off the real big away games we failed to do that even... (see prediction thread) Allen can't change my mind IMO as he's just average, its not a sin. I keep saying this. I called lukaku just good and tobes went mad... there are a range of footballers traore and n'gog.. total dirt most of everton team journeymen half the prem - average a good section of the better players - just good. Top 4 players = very good The special few: top players The very special pick of the world = world class IMO Joe allen fits into the average bucket. half the prem is average so its no sin. Lukaku by his own manager's decision is good but not top 4 good... why? does he see ett'o or ba as better? i have no idea but i feel the super cup made his mind up for him and seeing him fall over the ball v us when it was a virtual certain goal... yeah he's good, yeah he'll get better. will joe allen improve from average to good... maybe will he every be top 4. I can't see that. Sturridge is a good player from last years performances, prior to his injury i would have said he was looking very good.. .a goal a game average. Lets see if he picks that up again.. Here's another example... michu.... is he average or good, or very good. well if you took only his 6 months and 17 goals or so then yeah he was looking quite tasty but since then? well he fits the good player type level for me. nothing wrong with that. Here's another example. This time position wise. I would actually rate henderson at average in the advanced role cos his finishing is snatchy at best and his play with back to goal is unconvincing. Move him deeper as i beg on this forum and I think he moves straight to good and could be very good.. his passing is showing a developing range thats most impressive and his movement is excellent. get him facing goal not playing like coutinho. Whats bad is when you've a journeyman like aspas being justified at 7mil playing for you when you know in your heart and soul he is not able to compete. This is my way of looking at it anyway. LFC have a lot of good players, so do everton and spurs. we need more very good and top players to come to challenge... not be stuck with joe allen. Look any team can carry one or two max like this, CBs and full backs in particular. god knows utd do it but you need those top players in key positions like CM, GK and up front.
Not sure I agree, I think the 3 of them (Lucas, Allen, Hendo) were a good combination Lucas seemed happier in the DM role by himself and both Hendo and Allen put in a lot of work when we had lost the ball I don't think we looked lightweight at all but it is only a few games. I'm not going OTT with Allen and I think he has a lot of work to do if he wants to be one of our first choice midfielders but in recent games he has shown that there is more to his game than the shuffling tag he's gained. The energy off the ball he's shown is to be applauded and when on the ball he has been looking to create and shoot. There seems to be 2 camps on here the for and against but I would suggest he's somewhere in the middle, a useful squad player but also someone who's showing big signs of improving.
Im in your camp Luv, we're not champions yet so to sit castigating the standard players we have is pointless. Criticise the manager for fees paid but he's a standard player on standard wages giving standard performances. When we get somebody who puts in good or very good performances then he''ll have to up his game or sit on the bench or be sold on...like a good few in our squad. What he is not is a a big wage player who is either putting in nothing performances or doesn't quite fit anywhere in our 3 anymore without causing an imbalance; so again this revival of singling him out every month or so is strange. Although I find it interesting that if everyones views were put together we'd have Lucas, Gerrard and Hendo playing the deep role. Suppose a big gap in front of midfield would make a change to big gap behind....
you sure? i know i want to see stevie pushed further forward, and if we got cl football how many would be asking for replacements to both Lucas and Hendo, i don't mean sell i mean they become squad players as we can do better.
Allen is bang average imo. The price you paid for him was ridiculous, but that's not the lads fault. He receives the ball & lays it off simple, often with little purpose other than recirculating possession. As has been said he always makes himself available so that can provide an outlet when penned in. But in terms of creation & goal scoring he's limited. He's always going to attract the question "what does he do exactly?"
SO... did is criticise rodgers for the fee?.... Heres the thing. DF you just said this "Criticise the manager for fees paid but he's a standard player on standard wages giving standard performances. When we get somebody who puts in good or very good performances then he''ll have to up his game or sit on the bench or be sold on...like a good few in our squad." That's precisely my point as well. All I am saying is allen is average. if thats standard fine that's perfectly ok cos the whole point of EVERYTHING I say on this forum is aimed at the gaol of being at the top. where LFC in theory are aiming for. If we are working toward a grand plan then your comment of "when we get somebody" holds true. Its like a good golfer, if he goes out on the course at tournament time and find he's got a fade does he mess around... no he plays to the game he's got that day and goes and tries to get it out of his game form the next day. We have allen now. its january... if we cna get someone who is good then we do that. but if for stoke allen is all we've got then.... frankly we play him. no question. get the standard performance but don't expect a game changing moment. Now... my view on the 3 midfielders. what I am saying and did say on the england thing yesterday that if I were in hodgson's shoes or rodgers shoes I'd want to be playing henderson in a deeper role ala alonso.. now i aint saying henderson is suddenly a top player but my view is alonso's work rate was hugely under rated Henderson can be the same type of player. work rate and passing ability looks to be there. the games he played earlier in the season when lucas was out were decent as well.. we didn't play much mind but he did play the role well. I said on the england thing that barkley and whilshire as the box to box players would be better. Thats the type of thing LFC need. gerrard can't do it.. thats why i and others say imapct sub or come off after 60mins and deliver that role. I'd actually like us to try make coutinho that player.... that'd be interesting. I'd pay 30mil to insutl everton for barkely any day. he's the next huge thing IMO. so: Mingolet Johnson toure sahko enrique Henderson Gerrard coutinho Sturridge suarez sterling IMO thats about the best line up we can put out as of today. I would be very concerned about that midfield but i would like to see it happen. The thing is henderson has tactical flexibilty so if you said to him that lucas was coming o nfor gerrard he could go box to box for the last 30 and it'd not phase him. finally... buy buy buy. Allen is not going to get us to top 4. not even with suarez firing in 30 goals.
sums it up. I think its a tad harsh to sat its just recirculating only but its not like gerrard who's first instinct is to look for the forward pass to create with and then the pass. Allens movement is fine. he is average but again there's nothign wrong with being average. just like leon britton or gareth barry. is there any more players like oh cleverly i can throw a hook out with here?
