Top lad davethegooner totally agree with ur point on Mertasker but i still think Samba would a very good signing as he is also a threat in the oppositions box, lets hope for both of them!!
5th ? at best? seriously. Get your many out and bet on it then.... we have a week team and saying that we still got fourth/a cup final and far in both other comps.
My God its official. WE DONT AGREE ON ANYTHING. This is a cop out. Obviously we're going to concede more goals than teams like Chelsea who play far more negative football. However to assume that no defender would improve our defence is beyond stupid. We conceded 43 league goals this season. Do you really believe if that if we signed Vidic and Casillas we would'nt concede less? Our lack of real quality in goal is in my opinion the biggest factor in regards to the teams defensive frailty. Shotstopping is just a small part of a goalkeepers job. Organisation and distribution are equally as important - TWO things that Fabianski and Sczezney have no idea about. There's no organisation at the back so how are the midfield going to improve things? The midfield need a solid base to work from. (Song and Wilshere can both defend) Also how about our defending at set pieces?? Chants are one of the few things that Opta do not keep track of these days but no doubt their boffins chuckled to themselves when Thomas Vermaelen headed a corner clear against Fulham on the last day of the season and the Arsenal fans giddily started singing, to the tune of White Stripes' Seven Nation Army, "We defended a corner! We defended a corner!" That was an appropriately sarcastic condemnation of the team that conceded a higher proportion of goals from set-pieces (53.5%) this season than any other in the Premier League Look at Barcelona or look at Dortmund. Both teams play extremely attacking football - (yes both teams are good at pressing the opposition when they dont have the ball) but they also have solid top class defenders and experience in goal.
Absolutely correct. Can't believe the same people slating Djourou and Koscielny are bigging up the likes likes of these two.
Jayram you make some very good points, and I agree with you for the most part and was trying to allude to that in my initial post. I do think there are TWO main problems with the Arsenal defensive unit: One is the coaching. I think its quite clear that there isn't much going on here, season after season we are failing at the same areas, and that can only come down to poor coaching. The individual skill of our defenders is actually pretty good, but their ability to work as a complete unit is lacking. Its something pretty basic imo, and should be drilled into their heads in training, and I refuse to believe the players are just incapable of gelling as a unit. The second problem, and its a lot more subtle, is media perception. When a defensive player joins United, they are immediately touted as a future great, or a solid defender. When someone joins Arsenal they are almost calling for the time in which a mistake will be made, and that they aren't that good of a player. It was said about Vermaelen when he joined. I was in Sweden at the time, and in the paper, they had written up a piece on the top 10 worst signings of the summer, and sure enough Verminators name was on it. This just emphasises my point. Even the pundits talk at length about Arsenals defensive frailties, which in open play are seemingly very few, yet it is still talked about. I think because of this negative media, opposing teams try to get at us more, more so then they ever would United, because they are perceived as impenetrable. It also has an unquantifiable effect on Arsenal players, where they are trying to so hard to not make a mistake, so they media don't crucify them, that they actually make a mistake. But mainly, its the coaching, and it needs to improve drastically, maybe adding someone who isn't just going to accept subpar training, or has enough leadership qualities to sort out these weaknesses himself, may change it. But its the coaching, and I think its clear for most people to see.
Because Arsenal can't afford the very best proven defenders - either on transfer fee or wages. If you still haven't realised this after all these years then there's not much hope for you!
You make some good points but I maintain that we dont have the required defensive personnel to win the league. Personally I think aside from our lack of experience in goal the biggest issue is Wengers preference for technical defenders without ever considering: 

1. Height. Size matters in ALL contact sports.

 2. Experience.

 3. Balance. Most of the greatest defenses throughout histort contained one more technical ballplaying centreback and one 'ballwinner'. 

As fans we should assess our players objectively: 1.

Koscielney: 6'1 and built like a marathon runner. Completetly outmuscled by Kenwyn Jones and Kevin Davis this Season. He's a good player but he's very very slight for a Premierleague Centreback. 2. Djourou: Our only defender over 6'1. He's a big lad but lacks aggression and gets caught out of position far too often. 3.

Squillaci. 6'0 and not really cut out for the Premierleague. 4.Vermaelen: Our only World Class defender but at 6'0 he needs to play alongside a tall powerful defender. Some will claim that our defence is fine but 43 goals conceded this Season is FAR too many. The other KEY reason for our defensive frailty is a lack of fighters/leaders in our team. It's a cliche but its true and it's something that cannot be coached. These days at EVERY press conference and post match interview Wenger tends to mention the teams 'mental strength' and 'fighting spirit'. The reason he does this is because he knows full well that that is where the teams weakness lies. 

In truth we rarely manage see out a result when the pressure really mounts. 

It's a cliche but we do lack leadership and we lack 'fighters' .

I believe we have better players than United or Chelsea but we lack characters. Our teams has been assembled purely on technical ability and attitude and commitment has been overlooked.

Jayramfootball I endorse every thing you've said. Many fans here is just as blind as Wenger, not to see Arsenal defensive woes lie with the coaching staff. Regardless how many players we get in the summer. if we defend like we do it the same story all over.
Davethegooner.....the reason we dont buy world class defenders is because Wenger wont pay the big money for them.....simple...
Toure and Campbell were pretty good no? Not all amazing defenders cost an arm and a leg, look at Vidic for example.
You know I think too much is made of how poor Arsenal's defence currently is. Verm Kos and Dj are good centrebacks, and Sagna is an excellent right back. For me the main problem is the tactics, they play too high a line and the full backs leave the others exposed especially Cliche. I wish Wenger would reign the wingbacks in a bit and let walcott Nasri and Arshavin get down the wings instead. The real issue is we need a "ratter" in midfield like Flamini used to be, someone who will run all day (quickly) and tackle. Song is too slow and too lazy. If we had someone like that the defence would be under less pressure.
You'd have to agree that our continued tendency to tail off towards the end of the season, inability to win crucial games and failure to beat Birmingham city is a sign of a lack of a wining mentality wouldn't you Jayram?
1. Great, a player that never won European Cup/World Cup has an opinion on Football. People can be romantic about football but the truth is it's still a contact sport. The Tika-taka passing game will always be more successful in countries like Spain because the players are given more protection from the referees. I never said smaller CB's cant be successful. Just look at Puyol or Cannavaro. However Puyol played alongside Pique and behind Yaya Toure/Busquets while Cannavaro generally played alongside Nesta and behind TWO defensive midfielders. It's all about balance. I love technical attacking football but size power should'nt be overlooked. go back and watch some footage of the 2003-2004 team. They could play but they were also a team of athletes that make our current lineup look like characters from a Terry Gillian film. 2.Great, a player who has never won a League Title/ European Cup/ World Cup. He's a good young player what is your point? he has won nothing. 3.Tony Adams was not the donkey he often gets portraid as, the man could play: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JyNaE2H_w-4 As someone who has recently started competing in MMA (Mixed Martial arts) after years of training let me tell you fighters are born not trained. You can learn to fight but you cant learn how to have fight. The same thing goes for footballers. Leadership, courage, determination etc. are character traits that cant be taught. Invincibility lies in the defence; the possibility of victory in the attack. Sun Tzu
