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To Those Who Incessantly Berate Hughton For Being Incompetent

Discussion in 'Norwich City' started by royalbarclayfan, Jan 2, 2014.

  1. JKCanary

    JKCanary Guest

    Not to necessarily say we've had a worse injury situation than any team in particular, but you also have to take into account that we've had injuries to players in similar positions at the same time (Howson & Tettey ... E.Bennett & Pilks & Snoddy).
     
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  2. Canary Rob

    Canary Rob Well-Known Member

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    My big disappointment on this front is that we did not make enough use of the loan system. You only have to look at the likes of Everton, Hull, Swansea, etc. to see how well you can do with a well chosen loan. I know people don't like loans because they don't feel like "our" players, but it's no different from us buying a player only for them to be sold the next summer. The difference is we don't shell out for the big transfer fee in the first place (and equally don't get the added value in the summer), but yet we still get them (possibly on lower wages)
     
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  3. Canary Rob

    Canary Rob Well-Known Member

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    Yep - see point (b) above! <laugh>
     
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  4. JKCanary

    JKCanary Guest

    Ha. Apologies Rob, selective reading on my part.
     
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  5. ThaiCanary

    ThaiCanary Well-Known Member

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    In hind-sight, this is a very fair comment, and perhaps something CH will be looking a little closer at, given the midfield 'problems', and possibly at the back if Turner is going to be a longer term injury (any news on this?)
     
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  6. JKCanary

    JKCanary Guest

    I agree to an extent, but I think the majority of us saw getting Elmander in on loan as a shrewd bit of business. Shame he hasn't really shown what I believe he's capable of.
     
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  7. Canary Rob

    Canary Rob Well-Known Member

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    Good point - there might have been eyebrows raised if we had made a couple more loan signings as people would perceive that as holding back, e.g., Murphy's development. And that might be a fair reasoning. Hindsight is a wonderful thing!

    I must admit, I think Elmander has been reasonably effective and done what I expected (not more, but equally not less). An example of a good loan signing - but you look at Swansea, Hull and Everton who have brought in three each, most of whom play more regularly than Elmander. The consequence being that Hull have been virtually assured Premier League safety, Everton are challenging for Champions League and the only one it hasn't paid off for are Swansea who are (just about) coping with Europa League commitments, but their shrewd use of loans last season helped them get there. I would argue in each case the loan signings have been massive.

    Of course, you could also point to Southampton or Newcastle (though Remy has been a huge part in their success) as an example of the opposite, but given that they have had barely any major injuries, it's no surprise that they have not needed loans.
     
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  8. Norfolkbhoy

    Norfolkbhoy Well-Known Member

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    For me the style of play is not so much of an issue it is the continual stream of individual errors across the back line. All of our back five have made shockingly poor errors this season. This would not be so bad if it were the odd one or two but it seems that every time Ruddy has a decent game Bassong drops a clanger and when Seb plays well Ruddy does something crazy. When they both play well one of the FB's makes a mistake and so on.

    We have been lucky in recent weeks that Ruddy's poor judgement has not cost us more goals. I thought that he was looking back to his old self in November but i have not been impressed with his errors and poor calls this month.

    I accept that given the players we can afford we are not going to have the most solid defence in this league - if our CB's were as good as Kompany then frankly they'd be playing for a bigger club than us. It just frustrates me that all the good work we do as a team can be destroyed by a lapse at the back. I know that it is easy to criticise the defence as a unit and that we should both attack and defend as a team but you can't blame the system or indeed the manager for individual errors.

    I honestly don't have an answer as to what can be done - do we go back to two holding midfielders to shield the defence and accept that this will further stifle our creativity (and frankly that is not currently sparkling at the best of times!) but if we do are we basing our tactics on the theory that we will make mistakes which surely cannot be the way to go.

    I would love to see us get a strong leader at the back to marshall the defence either this month or in the summer but whether or not such a player would play for us or be in our price range I do not know.


    Whether our RB's will improve when Pilks is back I don't know but I do feel that Redmond has a huge amount of talent and gives us a spark but he needs to be told that his job is to set up the strikers to score rather than cut in virtually every time and shoot with maybe a 5% chance of scoring but don't get me started on inverted wingers shooting rather than crossing the ball!

    With a bit of luck RvW and Hooper will kick on and form a partnership which with luck will score enough goals to keep us up for another season and allow CH to strengthen further in 2014/15.
     
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  9. Canary Rob

    Canary Rob Well-Known Member

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    Spot on. I actually think the style and errors go hand in hand - it's like Wigan last year (not a nice comparison I know!) If we reverted to a worse style, a la Pulis, we would probably see a markedly improved defence. We need a better passing right back, IMO, and an upgrade on the admittedly solid Turner.

    I certainly don't see any need for two DMs though, but I think we could do with getting in a good centre-back - the fact that we were even under consideration by Alderweireld gives me confidence there. That would be my priority too. It's (again) deeply unfortunate that Turner is now injured - does anyone know how serious that is?
     
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  10. canary_max

    canary_max Well-Known Member

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    #30

  11. Canary Rob

    Canary Rob Well-Known Member

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    Yeah read that this morning - I would hesitate to describe it as "a view" because you should always keep in mind that this is intended to stimulate debate, get hits to the page and therefore increase the Guardian's advertising revenue - hence the unnecessarily aggravating point made to incite people.
     
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  12. Russ Martin 2

    Russ Martin 2 Active Member

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    Disagree with the OP regarding Russell Martin and Whittaker. Martin is a far better player than Whittaker; he is more versatile and tries harder in addition to having more natural talent and athleticism. Rusty has also been at the club for a few years and is liked by all the players and fans. Also perhaps a little harsh on David Fox and generous on Nathan Redmond. Completely agree about Fer, if Hughton can get Fer's head screwed on he could be our best player and agree that Ruddy has yet to recover the form of his best days.

    Good post on the whole though
     
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  13. Canary Rob

    Canary Rob Well-Known Member

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    I'm not sure I totally agree on Whittaker v Martin. I think Whittaker is the more natural footballer - he is significantly on the ball, passing is better (just) and, being slightly quicker, means he is more dynamic and better going forward as well as being more creative. I'd say Whittaker is closer to the modern attacking full back. Rusty is a true workhorse and crowd pleaser, which every team has a place for, but beyond being a solid professional I think he really is not good enough to justify his place when his form dips (though he was excellent against Man U). It is a real shame for this season that neither of our right-sided full backs has taken the opportunity to make it their own.
     
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  14. JKCanary

    JKCanary Guest

    #34
  15. Canary Rob

    Canary Rob Well-Known Member

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    Yeah it's definitely a close call.

    Martin was fantastic that game, hopefully it is a sign of things to come!
     
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  16. canary_max

    canary_max Well-Known Member

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    at least when russ doesn't start he is often on the bench, we need his character around the dressing room. only of the couple remaining from league one days.
     
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  17. Home on the range canary

    Home on the range canary Well-Known Member

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    SW and RM are both pretty limited; we need a better RB without question. Having said that when RM is playing well, he links up with other players much better. Maybe SW can improve, but he has been pretty terrible in the last few matches
     
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  18. SUPERNORWICH 23

    SUPERNORWICH 23 SUPERNORWICH

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    I don't understand why any discontent shown towards our horrible form and boring playing style is met with shouts of traitor on here ,it seems clear we are going to continue with the same and hope 3 teams are worse.
     
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  19. robbieBB

    robbieBB Well-Known Member

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    It doesn't "knock it on the head" at all. The fact is that, despite the injuries we have had, we are even now within 3 points of 10th place, i.e. the placing the most optimistic of us were saying at the start of the season would represent success. What those who cite our injuries are saying is that without them we would be more comfortably in contention for a top half finish. Do you disagree with that?

    Also, you say you accept Rob's points a--c, and then continue "for me it [nevertheless still] knocks the "loads of injuries argument on the head". Well, sorry Thai, for me that just shows how determined you are NOT to accept Rob's points! <ok>
     
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  20. robbieBB

    robbieBB Well-Known Member

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    My concern with Whittaker is his poor positional play when the opposition have the ball. He is often caught out in situations in which RM is much more alert and secure, and not just when the attack is coming down our right side. Think how many times RM has save us covering the CBs when the attack has been down the left side. Whittaker is often noticeable by his absence in those situations. If we were playing with three at the back, Whittaker would make a good wing-back. At FB RM is the better by a mile IMO. <ok>
     
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