OK we've had this debate on and off recently and I posted this on another thread re Ki v JDG: "Ki doesn't have a defensive side to his game at all. He was guilty of letting his player get away from him for an opposition goal in their last game - I haven't seen today's game as yet but they lost to a very poor Villa side and Ki played from the start. He doesn't stick a foot in and he doesn't track back. The same used to be said of De Guzman - justifiably - but he's improved this side to his game recently. Noticeably so. On the comparison with JDG, Ki had less assists and scored zero goals for us in his time here. He reminds me of Allen. A nice passer of the ball who plays elegantly but doesn't actually contribute a great deal when it comes to getting the ball in the onion bag. He doesn't break play up and doesn't track back. He can hit a ball but never did so effectively with us. I fully accept that Ki was played out of position here and his best role is as an AM but he won't get a look in here because we have better. At least not this season. Poyet plays him as a holding midfielder I believe. So whereas I do like him he definitely does not bring more to the table than JDG. Not at the moment anyway." I know others disagree with this so is JDG currently surpuls to requirements or is he contributing? Will he fall back into his old ways? Can't you wait for the day when he packs his bags? Should Ki be recalled? Ideally it's probably better to have both players here but what if you're given two stark choices? Poll results public. Over to you.
You been drinking Valley? So on JDG are you being won over or are you yet to be convinced? I can see the argument that maybe he has to keep this run going to convert a lot of fans.
Ki is in a new setup at Sunderland, and yet he has already equalled De Goose in the goal tally? he's definitely better at the killer pass, and is an all round better passer of the ball by far over De Goose. That said I don't think we can call him back, if you know different, then I stand corrected, but today De Goose was one on one with the keeper and fluffed it, so did Williams, but that was a half chance, De Goose was not, he should have buried it, and Ki would have. The only thing that De Goose brings, is his dead ball and set piece, but even that has gone way off the boil, I've lost count this season, how many times De Goose has failed to cross the ball past the first man in the box, a cardinal sin as far as I'm concerned, I see De Goose the same as I saw Gower!............
Just out of interest this is up on the Sunderland Board? Link:http://www.not606.com/showthread.php/243776-Fans-want-Ki-back
Yes, the recall thing could be for a number of reasons though - either to hurt Sunderland (as Norway recently advocated) or to give us another option- not necessarily because they prefer Ki to JDG. I'm not sure I buy the assertion that Ki would have buried the one on one either but we'll never know. Neither player is particularly strong in that department though JDG scored one of the team goals of the season last year with a one on one. I agree he should have beaten Hart yestaerday but I don't believe Ki would have made the run in the first place. I'm not knocking Ki. In fact I've always said it was criminal the way he was played out of position here but maybe that's becasue we are strong in competition for the AM role. As for the assertion that he can play a killer pass - yes this is true but his assists tally v JDG is worse. In fact, at the Mackems it's been a big fat zero. Re his goal tally - he has 1 whereas JDG has 2. Here are the stats (includes sub appearances): ..............PLAYED....GOALS......ASSISTS........STAT RATING JDG ..........23 ............2 .................3................6.91 KI............. 16 ............1..................0...............6.85 Pass completion and shots per game are very similar, with Ki edging both. Two similar players it seems, with JDG just ahead on stats yet it's curious there's a clamour to get Ki back here whilst heavily criticising JDG. Not saying that view is definitively right or wrong but it's interesting.
None of the above for me. Recall him so he can't help Sunderland survive and jeportise our PL status.
Does Ki's presence there actually jeopardise our PL survival chances? They've actually improved overall and I think it's a mistake to assume that's down to Ki's arrival - more like Poyet's arrival. Looks like JDG splits opinions here.
Recently there's been an improvement in JDG's overall performance and on his day he's extremely good ,hopefully the side's confidence is high after two positive games and this will reflect in everyones game including him.
The other side of the coin, Never, is that Ki could help Sunderland (possibly already doomed if Poyet's body language is any indication) take points off other teams around us.
"The South Korean midfielder has made quite an impact with the Black Cats since his loan move up North back in August and could play a vital role in their survival bid. The 24 year-old won a penalty and converted the spot kick to score his first Premier League goal to give Sunderland a massively important 1-0 win at in-form Everton. Manager Gus Poyet has praised Ki and hopes to keep him at the Stadium of Light: 'It is still early doors and I don't know how expensive he is. But we will see. He plays the type of football that I really admire. 'He has the ability to pass the ball with just one touch and change from one side to the other, or run with the ball and have a shot with either foot. 'If he believes that he can do a bit of the work the other way, the defensive way, he is a player who can give us the lot.' - Vital" Ki seems to be rated on a par with De Guz, so it's a matter of which player you'd prefer in your team, for me it's a no brainer I would choose Ki in my team, you can have De Guz in your's, Ki doesn't put the team on the back foot like De Guz does. No wonder José Francisco Molina benched him at Villarreal. Sunderland Supporters cannot understand how Laudrup let such a talented midfielder out on loan?
I voted to recall Ki not because he is better than JDG but because we are depleted in central midfield roles and need all hands on deck. It doesn't make sense to argue whether Ki or JDG are the better player. They are different players offering different qualities and depending on the role and mix of midfield required for any given opponent could be played together or one preferred over the other. I see them as equivalent. The problem we have is that with Michu out, we only have 4 players for three central midfield roles - Shelvey, JDG, Canas and Britton. Not a lot of competition for places there and if we suffer an injury (Is Leon injured?) we are at the bare minimum. We need Ki back to add numbers to that department. He is a known quantity and he knows our style. He should not need time to adapt, which any other acquisition in January would require. He would also cost us nothing to recall. With injuries to Dyer and Pablo, we are now down to Lamah, Pozuello, Routledge for two winger positions. Even if we consider Jazz as a midfield player we need another body in central midfield. For me it's a no brainer - Ki is recalled.
"It doesn't make sense to argue whether Ki or JDG are the better player" It's a debate, YJ The issue has arisen time and again over the last few months so let's get it out there. I agree that maybe a third option to recall Ki for other reasons would have been appropriate but I wanted to test the water to see how fans felt about each player's abilities on current form. At the moment JDG gets the vote. Nobody is suggesting Ki isn't a good player. Everything we know about both of them shows there's not much to choose between them. But surely Poyet's key sentence was this: "'If he believes that he can do a bit of the work the other way, the defensive way, he is a player who can give us the lot.'" How many times has JDG got in the neck here (deservedly at times) for not taking his defensive role seriously? We now know that side of his game has improved hugely in recent games but Ki's hasn't - as evinced by Poyet's statement. It may just be down to personal preference, but I think sometimes fans take against a player and then no matter what that player does he'll never win them back. It happened with Scotland who scored buckets of goals but was still hated by some fans because he "didn't work hard enough". Never understood that myself. Personally, I can dislike a player but I'm always prepared to be proved wrong. If JDG reverts back to his old ways than I agree there isn't much between them but at the moment JDG edges it because he's improved defensively whereas Ki hasn't. Others may well disagree and that's fair enough but I've yet to see a cogent argument put forward as to the reasons why.
KJ - I hear you and there have definitely been strong opinions posted on JDG in favor and not. On any given day I think JDG and Ki are equally able to produce magic and just as likely to be anonymous. Both have been guilty of "watching while jogging" when the other team breaks forward and typically our full backs are stranded at the wrong end of the field. My position is a bit of a cop out with respect to the debate, but frankly I find it difficult to discriminate between them. At this point we need both.
JDG for me needs to produce these type of performances for the next 6-10 games for me. There is no point playing well for a few games and then being rubbish for the next 6-7 games. Hopefully he will now start to become more consistent, BT the way Ki has played for Sunderland this season, he shades it for me at the moment, but it could change should JDG produce a consistent run of games like yesterday.
I would like to see both in our squad, but if this is a straight shoot out between Ki and JDG I would have to go for JDG. He plays a key role in CM, not flashy but efficient. When he comes on as a sub he brings an assured calming influence to proceedings. He has his critics, myself included, but there is no denying his importance to the team. On form he makes our midfield purr. I like Ki as well though
