I'd put it this way: I do attach value to accuracy and fair-mindedness (among other things), and even if we cannot reach perfection in these things, we should all aspire to be as accurate and fair-minded as we can. It seemed to me that Thai was simply taking a cheap shot at Dr Allam, a snide ad hominem remark about his use of the title "Dr" which had no relevance to the argument about club revenue, history etc.
No I wasn't, as Dave said, and you - he is an honorary Dr - he has not earned the title academically - ergo - not real. I guess the issue is I didn't write it 'perfectly' for you to understand. Either that or you are just looking for arguments in every post
My point is that an Honorary doctorate IS a "real" doctorate; the recipient has a real doctorate (degree) awarded by the university. The fact that an Honorary doctorate is awarded on the basis of achievement which the university considers to be equivalent to having, as you put it, "earned the title academically", does not make the degree any the less "real", nor any the less worthy. And I'm sorry but I stand by my view that you were simply taking a cheap shot at Dr Allam. Why bring that up at all in the context?
Time to agree to disagree Robbie. It would appear the only foundation for attaining his 'reward' was by making a considerable donation to the university. Anyone with the necessary funds can do that, even I could can buy myself a string of degrees online, but they are meaningless in what I would consider to be the 'true' sense of the word degree, or doctorate. What I do find very unpalatable from Mr Allem is that he is using his past acts of generosity to leverage support for his plans. I did this for you, how dare you disagree/I know best with me kind of attitude.
If honorary doctorates are considered equal in respectability to an earned doctorate, I might as well just run up the debt by donating the money to a university and save myself the hassle.
You don't need to do that.There are any number of universities in the US especially prepared to seel you whatever plaudit you wish to attach to your name over the counter.I believe that Doctor Ian Paisley was one such honour Edit:Just looked it up Bob Jones University Philadelphia,sounds kosher enough to me!
So the University of Hull, one of the longest established and most respected redbrick universities in the UK, is to be compared with some fraudulent printer of degree certificates? And benefaction to his local community on the scale of Dr Allam's in the East Riding is to be likened to sending $50 dollars to a fraudster's internet account? Thai took a cheap shot at Dr Allam. He then denied he was doing that, and then in his next post makes it clear that that was exactly what he WAS doing and tries to justify it by making even cheaper accusations. Is there any evidence at all that Dr Allam made his donation to the University of Hull with the express intention of "buying" a degree? No, there isn't, but it didn't stop Thai drawing that petty-minded, cynical and near-libelous conclusion {"It would appear that ........"). Yes it WOULD "appear that" to some, but that doesn't make it true and any fair-minded person would not simply jump to such a conclusion.
Sorry Robbie but in my humble opinion, for every one honourary doctorate that is worthy, dozens are simply to add to the prestige and glitz of the university!
Isn't it riveting when the same thread goes round and round and round... and disappears up it's own anus! I can actually recall, through the late middle-aged halcyon haze of potential dementia when this forum was actually a reasonably "fun" place to visit Unless one is armed with all the appropriate facts, figures - and doctorates, it isn't any longer
So we simply assume that Dr Allam's Honorary doctorate is one of the "unworthy" ones? Maybe DH and Thai can tell us all exactly what they have contributed comparable to what Dr Allam has done for his local community, or what life achievements they can point to comparable to his? They seem to think they are as entitled to an Honorary doctorate as he is, so let's have some justification please. This whole unwarranted attack on Dr Allam stinks of the petty-minded, snide, sneering attitude to success so typical of our national life. We are talking about a refugee given asylum in our country, who instead of scrounging off the welfare state has not only made himself a fortune by creating the country's leading engineering company in its field, but rather than selfishly enjoying the fruits of his labours, has given back to the community which took him in in a variety of ways -- in particular supporting local sports clubs. Not only has he rescued HCFC, he has supported his local RL club with money for ground improvement and team strengthening, and is a major sponsor of British Squash. Universities look at a person's life achievements as a whole when they award their Honorary degrees. People on here may not think that creating one of the country's most successful companies and winning the prestigious title of UK Entrepreneur of the Year (for 2006) is not the equal of earning a doctorate by academic research, but that is not the view of the universities themselves. They are not so narrow minded as to think that nothing other than formal academic achievement deserves recognition.
So why do the Universities hand them out? What does a degree have to do with any of those things. I think your being a little naive Robbie if you don't have some doubts these are a two way thing. Are they not just advertisments. Its what awards are generally all about.
Robbie, if you read my reply, I didn't say he was unworthy, I said for every worthy one there are dozens of unworthy ones, I can't comment on Allam other than to say he is lacking in the knowledge of football traditions!
To bring it back to the point of this thread, the only way I can see teams getting more revenue and fan base in foreign countries is to consistently be at the top. I don't recall Chelsea or Man City changing their name and colours to capture the attention of the Asian market. They just consistently won things and stay at the top of the league. Obviously they had to pump ridiculous amounts of money into the squad and so it is likely to stay a closed club. Changing name and colours can surely only produce minimal returns and it will annoy far more current fans who don't give a damn if a few young boys in Asia prefer the red Cardiff top or the name tigers! And that's where my really issue lies, football today is so beholden to the ridiculous amounts of money that pours in from all over the world that it is starting to get taken away from the fans who have been there far longer than any player, manager or owner. Changing part of the history of their club in the hope that they'll sell a few hundred more t-shirts is just disrespectful to the fans that are going to see their team every week.
