The truth is that the dissatisfied are always the ones to make the most noise -- borne out as much on here as anywhere.
IMO, this often has to do with an 'I want it now' generation. When I start up my latest laptop, it reports the boot-up time (generally around 70 seconds) and then asks 'Would you like to optimise that now?'. I was bored one day, so I said yes. It took 10 minutes for it to reduce the boot-up time by 10 seconds. Is this the culture calling for managers' heads after some disappointing results? It seems that way to me.
I think you may have a point there.It's a desire for instant excitement,something that has been increasingly supplied in the computer age.
Agree 100% -everything has to be instant today. Mobile phones have also added to this. Nobody is prepared to wait anymore.
I'm sorry, but I feel I have to take issue with the undercurrent of self-righteousness in some of the posts on this thread (and on other threads in general). Happy clappers: stalwarts Pant-wetters: fickle HC: able to see the long-term, to take the longer view PW: desire instant gratification, short-sighted HC: mature PW: like children HC: strong, silent types PW: noisy, chattering, babbling HC: logical, able to focus PW: distracted by any bauble, dizzy HC: capable of being satisfied, realistic PW: greedy, carping, grumbling HC: true supporters, who only care about the club PW: plastics who just want to bask in vicarious success If your arguments are that strong, use them, and don't resort to ad hominem insinuations.
I take your point, Vietnam, but I wasn't intending the kind of divide you're suggesting. The impatience is something different, IMO, and perhaps borne of over-expectation. Some of us older fans (I'M over 40 years a yellow) are sometimes too patient (and optimistic) in our hope that things are progressing and will be better in the future. City have a good squad which is still developing, especially the new players. It does bother me to see a thread on the Pink'un board called 'If we beat West Ham we'll be relegated'. We beat West Ham, will we? Other comments like 'we need to freshen things up by changing the manager' also beg the question. I dislike the HC/PW trivialisation of both points of view and have always held with the view that City must keep in touch with the mid-table positions. I think we are doing that and it amazes me how the criticisms seem to disappear after a win. Is is really just an emotional reaction after each bad result?
It's has never been, as far as I can see, anything other than about the spectacular nature of the defeats and the lack of....well, anything. I think even a 7-0 thrashing could be accepted away to Man City, if there was some fight in the opposite direction (an unlikely scenario I would hope). The same can be said for Man Utd and Liverpool away, and to a much lesser degree Arsenal away.
Partly, I think. I know most of my 'extreme' posts come during or immediately after games and I'm sorry if my contribution earlier was also rather strident. There is nothing I would like more than for us to get six, seven or nine points from the next three games. I'm worried how CH is proving a kind of catalyst for two factions within the supporters and, as I said before, surely 23, 24 or 26 points from 18 games would put the discussion to bed for at least the rest of this season. And this is a Hughton-doubter speaking.
Don't agree with that at all Thai, people were moaning and wanting a new manager way before we got tonked by Man City. I'm afraid the dislike of Hootun would appear to run deeper than that for some.
A very good point TC. Most of us can accept a defeat, but it is the manner of some of our defeats in recent games that has 'polarised' many of our own fans and I'm sure the same could be said for other teams' fans who are baying for a change of manager (as was said earlier, how many Arsenal fans wanted a new manager after their defeat in the first game this season????). CH has certainly bought himself some time and it is now down to the players to get ALL of the fans back 'on-board'. A good result on Sunday would certainly help in that respect!!! Munky - Some fans would rather we had PL back, but from what I've heard, all is not rosy at Villa Park.
With the Baggies fan I listened to on WM radio, it was more the fact they they lost at home to a team that everyone else was blowing away, well, that and why did they start with 1 up front against a team that concedes goals for fun.
My own take on this is a level of boredem on the whole debate, I had very little to say after the Liverpool debacle and again little to say after the WBA game. A great much needed win that it was, it didn't really change my stance on CH and I couldn't be bothered to start it all up again. As with some others I am open minded and if I start to believe that we are making progress under CH then I will make my way back on to the fence and maybe even hop off on the HC side. Don't agree with that at all Thai, people were moaning and wanting a new manager way before we got tonked by Man City. I'm afraid the dislike of Hootun would appear to run deeper than that for some. As for your point Munky, it really isn't a dislike of CH, but misgivings about whether he can take us forward or if he is the limited coach that I and other perceive him to be on the evidence thus far presented. I would say that firstly I had wanted a change of manager in the summer, but when the board backed him I thought Ok then lets see what he can do. At no point up to playing Man C did I get truely convinced that he was greatly improving us and the Man C game probably was the game for me where my patience ran out. Not because 10 games is enough to judge a manager, because in my opinion 48 plus cup games probably is. I know this could start things up again (and its kind of why I'm staying away), but if CH was sacked tomorrow, try to think how you would remember his tenure? For example in 3 years time (Difficult because we can only guess at how we would do with a new man and that would almost definitely colour our opinions) I would say dire football, few goals, terrible away, divided the fans and the thing that would perhaps stick out the most would be the rather too frequent tonkings. I would also add to that the 10 game unbeaten run and in particular beating the Gooners, however those memories are probably a little harder to remember as it feels like a long time ago in part because of the long spell that followed. The one last thing I would hope to remember fondly would be his signing of hopefully future Norwich greats like Fer, RvW and Hooper. Much like Gunn the signings could be the most important legacy. I'm off to hide from the coming HC barrage! Bah! p.s. Robbie are you still away? If you went before the CP game then can you stay away a little longer it might be bringing us luck! (No one could bring us luck enough to survive ratface!)
GM - Yes, some people were raising the subject long before the Man City game. I remember only too well the two home games against Fulham and Newcastle last season, where some real murmurings began, but again this was down to hopelessly we played on both occasions. I never suggested that the Man City game is where it all began, that was just an illustration that should be fresh in all our minds The divide is and always was created by the way the team has played, and not just following defeats.
Can't argue with that statement and whilst the home games against Fulham and Newcastle last season were dire - I clearly remember us going to the Stadium of Light during PL's tenure when we just sat back and let Sunderland attack us. I fervently hope that our win against WBA could be the catalyst for us moving forward and if it isn't, then I can see the 'How long do we give him' thread being resurrected!!
I wonder at what point did Charlton decide they'd had enough of Curbishley, or when did Wolves decide they'd had enough of McCarthy, or even Blackburn, when did they decide they had to get shot of Steve Kean? Do you think fans of those clubs now dream of being in the situation they were when they sacked those guys? As has been said many times before now, be careful what you wish for
I don't think it's too hard to make your little chart correct though: Happy clappers: blind dogmatics......... Normal fans: stalwarts ......... Pant-wetters: fickle HC: relentless denial of the facts in front of them ......... NF: able to see the long-term, to take the longer view ......... PW: desire instant gratification, short-sighted HC: stubborn......... NF: mature......... PW: like children HC: muttering snidey types ......... NF: strong, silent types......... PW: noisy, chattering, babbling HC: too macro, unable to see the wood from the trees ......... NF: logical, able to focus......... PW: distracted by any bauble, dizzy HC: easily contented on the basis it's the easy route......... NF: capable of being satisfied, realistic ......... PW: greedy, carping, grumbling HC: frothing hooligans......... NF: true supporters, who only care about the club......... PW: plastics who just want to bask in vicarious success The bottom line is that I think with all these things it's a sliding scale. Whatever your opinions are, you will always try to depict them as, in this scenario, "NF". This is what the PWs and the HCs do.
The only argument I can find in this is that I cannot think of a manager that has gone down from the PL, only to bring a team back up again (not in recent years at any rate)
Yep, 2004 and sacked 5 months later, although that was infighting with the board, more than the team efforts on the pitch.
Sorry, but I don't really get your point? All those clubs were still in the top flight when they sacked those managers (edit, just realised Kean did indeed relegate Blackburn): - Charlton employed Dowie, Les Reed and Pardew the season after they sacked Curbishley for 'only' finishing in a 'disappointing' 13th place. They were relegated that very season and have never looked like bouncing back at any point, quite the opposite in fact. - Wolves handed Terry Connor the reins after sacking MM, who promptly steered them to a calamitous season finale and relegation, and in trying a few other managers they have subequently ended up in the third tier. - Ok, Blackburn did go down with Kean in charge but were sitting nicely in third place when he was sacked. Since then they've been through a few managers and despite spending £8m on Jordan Rhodes haven't looked anything like bouncing back with a different manager at the helm and have spent most of the time in the bottom half of the Championship. And anyway, do you really think we're going to be relegated with Hootun as boss? Do you really? I'd have to say all the evidence points otherwise, I can't see us going down this season in a million years personally.
