No offence Omega, but that's your version of what could be proposed and no offence, but I'm sure you agree, you have a vested interest in pulling it down, but I'm more interested in the CTWD version. I don't think this is a time for fallings out, I think there seems to be an opportunity for groups to work together. I've a very, very limited understanding of these things, but would it be a possibility for both proposals to go ahead?
Sorry but you are painting a picture that makes it sound so easy. The tv money could be just as easily borrowed against to repay the loan from Allam House. It cannot be put in the picture. A high percentage of the 15000 are not wage earners. Assem Allam will not speak to anyone from the CTWD campaign group. I know that it is now moving away from being actively against the name change but that will not make a difference. You cannot buy what is not for sale and its no good pretending that you can. By the way where are the answers to my question? You where forceful enough in insisting that I answered yours but no one answers mine. The No to Hull Tigers protest is over isn't it? Why are you not telling people that you have now moved on to ownership?
Don't you think both aspects are related? That fans/supporters should be entitled to some say in both the Club's name and its future?
No they are not. There's a gigantic gulf between getting AA to back down over ONE stupid proposal and actually owning part of a PL club.
But they're also closely related - in that he's made pronouncements in both cases; pronouncements that he has then gone back on.
I have no vested interest in pulling anything down. You asked for a dummies version and that is what you have got. There can only be support for one proposal. Supporters Direct will talk to any supporters groups, but will only work with its members. Tigers Co op are still members. It is up to them just who they work with and they have joined the former anti name change protest group. Assem Allam will not talk to anyone who is involved with the anti name change protest. I have asked repeatedly for a fans conference to be called that does not debate the name change, but it always comes to the fore from all sides.
So you're implying that because he has proposed something so ludicrous once that it's bound to happen again and that we must take actions beforehand? What started as a demonstration against a single proposal is turning into " £400million worth AA doesn't know how to run a business so we have stop him" Quite a shame this wasn't done against those who actually ****ed us up in the first place (Duffen and co) rather than those who gave us a PL club.
That's a good point, but it presumes that every supporter is anti name change doesn't it. If I believe that Hull Tigers would be good for the club (which I don't) do I go to the meeting on Saturday and sign up to the CTWD no to Hull Tigers protest so that I still have a say in a supporters trust? How does that work? It's a bit like an RL trust being set up by FC supporters saying that they work for HKR supporters as well, come and join the Hull FC trust, we are going to buy Craven Park.
'Dr' A actually said he'd welcome fans' participation in the share-ownership of Hull City, didn't he? Or am I and thousands of others wrong and he didn't say it? To me, the one thing he has done that is really wrong is his notion of changing City's name. Why would he be expected to do anything wrong in the future (going on his record)? And you know it's nothing really to do with knowing/not knowing how to run a business. It's all down to his falling out with HCC - and he's said so. Or was he lying then, too?
Don't you think that the share-holding effort will, eventually, be a separate financial enterprise? I do. But the two appear (to me) to be intrinsically linked, in that both are concerned with the history and tradition of the Club - and its future preservation.
No, I've got YOUR dummies version. It doesn't actually inform me of anything specific for what is or isn't being proposed and it tells me nothing new. Why can there only be support for one proposal? Surely one group could own a percenatge and another group another percentage, in the same way individual shareholders would. The difference would be the make up of those individual or group shareholders. You may not want to pull anything down, and it could simply be my ignoarnce of this situation, but you come accross as anti the CTWD group, or at least elements of it, and pro whatever this scheme of yours is. (I'm not totally sure what this scheme of yours is tbh)
REPLY TO OMEGA MAN "Sorry but you are painting a picture that makes it sound so easy. The tv money could be just as easily borrowed against to repay the loan from Allam House. It cannot be put in the picture. A high percentage of the 15000 are not wage earners. Assem Allam will not speak to anyone from the CTWD campaign group. I know that it is now moving away from being actively against the name change but that will not make a difference. You cannot buy what is not for sale and its no good pretending that you can. By the way where are the answers to my question? You where forceful enough in insisting that I answered yours but no one answers mine. The No to Hull Tigers protest is over isn't it? Why are you not telling people that you have now moved on to ownership?" MY REPLY The picture isn't easy as is fairly plain from what I said. We have an owner that isn't happy with our campaign, we have a feeling of apathy and nice idea but......, we have to find the money needed, etc etc. All in my post if you look for them. Assem Allam will not speak to us today. That is one of the problems we have to overcome. We are not going to overcome it today, or even tomorrow. If he wants Hull City to be owned by the fans then he will have to sit down with representatives of the fans. The OSC has 1800 members and CTWD has close to a thousand. No other fan group has anywhere near these figures. We also have a recognised Supporters Trust in the Tigers Co-op. I don't pretend anything. If Assem Allam wants to sell the club to Adam Pearson he will. If he wants to give it to the fans he will. I thought the questions were aimed at OLM. Here's my answers: I don't know what meetings the Tigers Co-op have had with Supporters Direct. I'm not a member and don't see it as any of my business. CTWD have had talks with Supporters Direct on the same basis as yourself. The information they gave us is the same as they gave you. The talks with the club depend on a number of things as you well know. Most importantly how many members and how much money we have. The more members and money the easier it will be to talk to the club. I took OLM's comment to be an ordinary use of common English not a precise legal definition within the rules set down by Supporters Direct. They provided us with answers to our questions. Just as they provide answers to your questions. The name change campaign isn't over until Assem Allam says we'll remain Hull City or the FA vote no. The notice advertising membership clearly states we have moved on to ownership as well as opposing the name change. We have been open about the basis on which we are recruiting.
Lol you call him a liar when it suits you and then believe his every word the next. I thought it was pretty obvious from his rather ridiculous outbursts that AA is a control freak.
You know how to make yo mamma jokes and you seem quite good at telling people what they would or wouldn't say to your face in a pub. You seem to be able to do this by pm such as this one you sent. "You have a choice, apologise now and I will accept it was an error or wait until I ask you to do so to your face." The thought of someone like yourself representing the views of fans who you have tried to threaten or bully sickens me to the stomach. I regard your input to this forum as nothing more than sheer drivel and this is an opinion I am quite entitled to hold and share on here. I find the whole concept deeply amusing (comedy gold). I will say that you did at one point make a half hearted apology over your comments in the future tense regarding my fathers wife of 55 years who is also my mother. Let me make this very clear, I regard you as a very poor human being and I will make myself available to speak to you in the pub about Hull City related matters. Hell would have frozen over before I would of apologised to you over the remarks I made about your departed father on the basis that in this life you reap what you sow. Your fan ownership nonsense is a non starter and has little if any support and the way you have hidden behind the anti-Allam brigade to get your five minutes of fame is frankly disgusting.
My apology was in good faith, if I offended you I am and was sorry for that, what more did you want. As for the threat where is it? You are trying to make something out of nothing, for what end who knows. There is a name for it TROLL!
Obadiah. "The OSC has 1800 members and CTWD has close to a thousand. No other fan group has anywhere near these figures. We also have a recognised Supporters Trust in the Tigers Co-op." How many are members of all three? The OSC may well have the ear of Assam Allam, but it is an elected group and cannot simply just morph into something they are not. My concerns are this. A divided supporter base will never be as successful as a united one. Supporters will need to be able to work with the owners. The CTWD group is made up of members of different sections of the support but not all of the sections are involved because of the name change protests. There is at the moment I believe four groups who have elected boards and or committees. Have the members of these groups had an opportunity to vote on joining up as a supporters trust? As I say the solution is for ALL supporter groups to work together and the way to do that is to hold a fans conference.
Or it's a way of highlighting what they expect to be lies to the people who object to him being called a liar? (It works the other way round as well, when it suits them people who object to him being called a liar will turn round and say that there's no way he meant what he said.
The four groups you mention have all had an opportunity of joining Tigers Co-op, Hull City's supporters trust. Its been in existence for nearly two decades. Any one the groups could have asked their members if they wanted to join in that time. If we are to avoid the problems Manchester United fans faced when the public limited company in which fans held shares was converted into a private limited company Hull City AFC has to be owned, ultimately, by a supporters trust. We already have one. I don't think we should be reinventing the wheel. The question is can the Tigers Co-op be the foundation of fan ownership of Hull City? I haven't heard any valid reason why it can't be, other than Assem Allam won't talk to anybody connected to CTWD. What you appear to be saying is if we have a Supporters Trust anybody connected with CTWD should be excluded from representing it. My personal view is we have a supporters trust already and we should build upon that foundation. Sorry if I've misrepresented you.
So - the Doctator won't talk to Hull City Council, because they went public with the meeting results (re the KC); and now he won't talk to CTWD - and CTWD didn't publish the (oft-demanded!) minutes nof their meeting with him... The Doctator is a Grade 1 Fruit-cake. [EDIT: And his fans appear to be not much better....]
I am NOT saying that anyone connected with CTWD should be excluded. What I am saying is that The No To Hull Tigers protest has to be separate from the Supporters trust. You cannot build a supporters trust unless you include every supporter. On your other point. And this is just my personal take on things. The Tigers Co op and HCOSC are two completely different organisations, with different constitutions and objectives. They could work in conjunction, just as CTWD can work in conjunction with Tigers Co op. CTWD is well organised, it was formed with one intention and it has and is evolving. Should it become something it wasn't formed to be, that's for its membership not me. But I cannot see how any one who isnt against the name change will be able to join it as a supporters trust and that is a massive problem for me. The group that met with Assem Allam could be the foundation for a supporters trust, but that group is not completely CTWD. Invite the group to meet again and let that group put forward a united front in support of building a reformed supporters trust, bearing in mind that the Tigers Co op has to be legally able to operating in a way that produces the right levels of investment. There is I am sure a real interest from every supporters group to see a successful trust in place.
