OT Mandela dies.

I did see the documentary and I glean information from a number of sources and formulate my opinions from them. Can I thank you for not trying to shout me down just because my opinion differs from some. Mandela allegedly fought against oppression, something other 'contributors' to this debate might want to consider.

 

Ta!

 

Mate, this board and 'OT' threads will always throw up different, radically opposite views. Just 'cos we all support the same football team, doesnt mean we have the same political views, taste in women (or men) or even like the same tunes.
We ALL need to take a step back and remember to debate with an open mind anything on this board and show a bit of mutual respect.

On the subject of Nelson, trust me, from personal experience i know you can change your views. I know i did (I wasn't always the Left-Wing Antifascist you see before you now...far far from it). And i truly believe he did change and learn...and personally i think he was a great man.

 

Staines, you are entitled to your opinions and from what you say, you are talking from the standpoint of someone who has bothered to educate themselves. I have done the same and formed a different opinion. Whether or not yours or mine is the correct one is of no consequence, the fact is we are both entitled to them and more importantly, voice them. Quite why some dullards can't understand that is beyond comprehension.

 

Apologies if the intention was unclear in my title but in my naivety I expected that it would be a tribute thread, not a discussion about whether there should be tributes or not and!

I would appreciate it if this thread could be kept for tributes and others may wish to start another thread raising questions about Mandela's earlier history.

Thank you.

 

Shefford, this thread, although not so titled, was opened as a tribute to the life of someone who was almost universally acknowledged as a giant among men. You are of course entitled to differ, but I'm sure you were aware that there was another thread that became more of a focus for debate. As far as I am aware you did not contribute on that thread, but chose to sully this thread with your somewhat inflammatory views. Shame.

 

I have not read through this thread in detail, but Mandela was obviously a truly great man, whatever label you want to pin on him. Violence to overthrow an illegitimate regime ( one that the majority of the people are not allowed to vote for or against, and which uses violence to maintain its power ) is perfectly justified in my view, and guess what it worked. Always preferable to bring change peaceably, but why the **** should the oppressed be patient?

 

Without wanting to be accused of being inflammatory...I feel Sheff has a valid point. I don't deny NM's huge contribution to the initial reconciliation within SA.....but he was in prison for a reason. Whatever the rights & wrongs of protesting violently or otherwise against an obviously reprehensible regime, innocent people died at his direction so the overwhelming adulation of this man as a saint I also find nauseating. If we are going to acknowledge his unquestionable contribution to a more acceptable regime in SA then it has to be in the context of his activity throughout his life. Gandhi he certainly isn't. All I think that Sheff...& I....are suggesting is let's have some balance here when contemplating his life. 27 years in jail clearly mellowed his view and he was wise enough to realize that upon being freed his best chance of progress was to take a more reasoned and balanced view to all parties than he had done prior to being convicted. He wasn't framed, regardless of the distaste we all must have for the regime that jailed him, he was a self- admitted terrorist who had committed acts of violence against innocent people.

I certainly applaud his post-freedom approach to politics and society but SA is far from a perfect place as a result of his and his successors politics, one form of hideous racism has been replaced by another less publicized form.

As the saying goes, opinions are like arseholes, everyone's got one!!

 

What complete tosh. Please explain why this thread has been sullied by my comments which are FACTS? If you choose to ignore them, that's your issue not mine. My views are not inflammatory, just the truth. Not only am I entitled to differ, I am entitled to voice those differences. Freedom from oppression. When you are prepared to apologise, just let me know.

 

When I break the rules, please let me know, until then I will exercise my freedom to voice my opinion. No one in their right mind would censor the truth, or would they?

 

To possibly lighten up the current direction this thread has taken?

[video=youtube;XC3ahd6Di3M]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XC3ahd6Di3M&feature=youtu.be&a[/video]

 

I don't think anybody has the right to continue to shove their opinion down everybody else's throat in such an aggressive manner in the name of freedom of speech.

That's my tuppence worth.

 

Oppression breeds aggression, I believe. I'm sure dear old Nelson would agree! The irony is not wasted on me. Some of the farcical statements since my original post are quite contradictory of the freedom that Mandela and his sympathisers so bravely (!) fought for. I have not shoved my opinions down anybodys throat, quite the reverse in fact. What I find odd is the fact that those who appear to agree that what Mandela did was in the name of freedom, deny me that very freedom to have and voice an opinion. Listen to yourselves people!!!

 

This

 

But also this.......

 

Terrorist or freedom fighter? In the eye of the beholder. He certainly engaged in some ideologically-motivated organised crime, and for this did 27 years in jail.

Has the lot of the majority population improved because of the totality of his actions? Most would say yes.

Is South Africa heaven on earth? Like most places on the planet it is if you are wealthy and can afford adequate security.

 

OK everybody, poor old Shefford is oppressed and that accounts for his aggression even though this is the umpteenth time he has come on here and expressed his aggression on various subjects. He is also being denied his freedom to say what he wants.

Rather than the rest of us listen to what we are saying, I suggest you listen to yourself Shefford!!!!!

 

Not sure why stating facts that just happen to be contrary to the majority view is perceived as aggressive...I sense the aggression being directed towards those of us willing to take a balanced view rather than jumping on the "Nelson is a saint" bandwagon

 

This!