Ghandi found an answer, although not everyone agreed with him. I take it you are referring to the Sharpesville massacre.
Are you saying two wrongs make a right, FHB? Are you saying that more women and children needed to die because of the Sharpesville Massacre? And you accuse me of typing rubbish.
I doubt that you would understand but that was the sentiment behind the peace and reconciliation commission that two wrongs do not make a right! I wonder who was the driving force behind that - P W Botha?? The point that both you and TC have managed to miss is that both sides, the ANC and the South African government perpetrated horrendous crimes against the other. The world intervened to a lesser extent and the good that was initiated by de Clerk was recognised and reciprocated by Mandela. It took two to tango and to lead both parties to the situation whereby a peaceful transition to democracy took place. That Mandela had the bigger firebrands and less disciplined followers was never in question. Both werer awarded the Nobel prize on that basis. However the challenge that Mandela faced was also to bring Inkatha to a recognition of the benefits of a peaceful transition at the same time as leading the ANC who he had not been able to lead in person for 27 years, to the same outcome. Was he a saint of course not and he frequently dismissed the notion saying that he was a to much of a sinner for that idea. He recognised his own previous failings and attempted to do the right thing. PW Botha only wanted him out of prison to stop the sanctions not to give democracy to the population of South Africa. Is South Africa a peaceful place now, no but it is a land were people all have the right to work towards their own destiny. You might choose to point out that lawlessness was controlled under the old regime, but the same was true of Stalin's Russia and the third reich. If it comes to a choice between a dictatorship of the minority and a democracy I know where Istand and am happy to continue to stand on the matter.
You truly are a patronising prat. How long did it take you to cut and paste that piece of propaganda? Anyway, what do innocent people have to do with politics? Mandela was involved in the slaying of his own people, not just whites.
You have proved my point with your laziness. It's okay to kill innocent people as an act of retaliation, yes?
Come on guys - if members wish to debate Mandela then go ahead, but no further insults or it will be closed. You're all capable of debating without it getting personal.
Svc. Your right two wrongs don't make a right, but surely don't do a wrong in the first place. What did Martin Luther King say "non violence is the most powerful weapon for courageous people" Mandela ignored those basic teachings in favour of terrorism. A rugby World Cup win and some nifty over the top political speeches, won't bring back the dead on both sides. The Berlin Wall fell, Dirty Den divorced Angie, all without a shot being fired, it can be done. What I object too, is those that force the hand of history through violence. Will someone tell me why no bugger ever cares about what happened in the other African nations like Congo, Rwanda, Somalia, Sudan etc etc, it once again proves my theory that genocide, starvation, mutilation, mass rape, murder can all take a back seat when it comes to the real spectre of middle class 1970's rage-racism. When the FA realise that there are more important issues in this game than tin rattling for a cause that no one really understands what the offences are?
Ha ha. I knew it was my fault. I find you fascinating, educated, witty, slightly bonkers. For every ying there must be a yang and your a yang alright and we need yangs....without them there is no middle ground.
Your depth and range of knowledge is very impressive and having checked a few of your posts out on Wiki afterwards, all are your own work. I do reckon though you are a terrible golfer or card player, am I right?
Ha! I have never played any golf other than the crazy variety, and I only ever play (and mostly lose) card games with my kids. I grew up on a Thamesmead housing estate, so my origins are quite humble. I have been to prison, been homeless, battled alcoholism and drug abuse, suffered from severe depression and rampant OCD, and I still self-harm on a regular and private basis. But then I discovered a love for my wife, children and history, and I now examine medieval documents as a pastime. It has been a colourful 35 years. I appreciate your comments, typical. I do try to entertain, yet I seem to piss a lot of people off. It is never intended.
Wow Ponders, you have had a colourful life. Congratulations for battling with your demons and making a life for yourself. You have got very strident views, nothing wrong with that, we haven't always agreed on things but I respect your right to express them.
Cheers, dick. I appreciate your kind words. I'm sure most of us have had troubled lives, and many will not wish to discuss them, yet I have always found such openness to be a form of therapy. Anyway, shouldn't we be debating Mandela...
I have found in life to steer clear of Religion and political arguments. I really don't know enough about Mandella to contribute.
I thought Morgan Freeman did a half decent job in Invictus. But I doubt I'll go and watch the Idris Elba movie.
Especially religion. I can say that having grown up, like ybab, in Ayrshire where sectarianism is /was a fact of life.
