Why does the FA feel it appropriate for a minutes applause for Nelson Mandela, I don't get it. Surely, whatever you feel about politics and sport, what is this gesture meant to mean? Keep politics out of sport, particularly when the media are only pushing you one side of the story, or at least recognise the thousands of political prisoners that have languished and been tortured in prisons for a lot longer and in worse conditions that Mandela ever did for 'crimes' as trivial as praying or poetry.
He did more than just poetry and that when freedom fighting or civil rights or whatever you want to call it.
Mandela used sport as a unifying force. So did Barry McGuigan. In Mandela's case it was incredible to go into the South African rugby team's dressing room at half-time in the world cup final wearing a Springbok jersey to give "my boys" a pep talk. Rugby was the most staunch bastion of apartheid, and why should sport not show its appreciation?
Yeah am sorry I have to agree with Typical here... He did a lot for South Africa fighting for freedom and civil rights as its been mentioned and what I'll greatly admire but Sport and Politics should never go together If he was from England or even Great Britain I could understand doing something but...
It's not as if we are being asked to give £1 to charity.... a minutes silence is really not too much to ask for one of the great people of the last 100 years is it? South Africa could have been a massive trouble spot over the last 20 years with millions coming to Britain as political refugees, Nelson Mandela's sheer will and personality avoided this and the world (including sport) should be grateful to him. Sleep well Nelson Mandela.
Bleedin' Hell, typical, why did you have to start a thread like this? It is just too tempting for me to type out a beautiful tribute to a wife beating, philandering, murdering thug... but I just can't bring myself to do it. Instead, I shall refrain and allow those who ignore the true story to do it for me.
Its all starting to remind me of the mindless 'group think' fake hysteria that greeted the death of Princess Di. Generally speaking I am not a fan of Marxist/Communist politicians who had links to terrorism.
Oh, and by the way, South Africa has regressed terribly over the last years, but we shall ignore that fact. Instead, we shall tolerate the increased prostitution, gang crime, drug addiction, persecution of non-ANC members and the downturn in agricultural yield due to the murderous deletion of white farmers.
Anyway, I say Rest In Peace to the many innocents who died at the hands of Saint Nelson of Mandela. Perhaps he'll say sorry to you in heaven...
South Africa will make what happened in Rhodesia look like a vicars tea party over the next 10-20 years. Their economy is contracting sharply because the ANC leadership are economically illiterate bufoons. Violent crime has risen by over 300% since Mandela & Co took over. Because the victims are predominately affluent and white, its a price worth paying for the Guardian/BBC / liberal bed wetter classes.
I am sorry but it is a lot to ask. He has nothing to do with this country, the FA don't speak for me. He has nothing to do with our sport, or my values, (my values include not using explosives in public places to make a political point), notice that the FA have asked for a minutes applause rather than silence, just in case. The FA should not be glorifying this man, they are using us to support their own political ideals . That is wrong. As for SA being a major trouble spot, and NM through his will and determination prevented this, is compete media fantasy. Statistically, SA went from the safest country in Africa to the murder country of the world, while NM was president, the tribal conflicts increased, including the murders of whites, Indians and Rwandans. Rape is common, as many as 300 a day and on many occasions by aids carriers (the conviction rate is also very low) corruption is everywhere. In the last twenty years SA problems have increased, not so much NM's fault but if your in charge at the time, you have to take some responsibility and should be judged.
Look up Cardinal Ignacious Kung- the archbishop of Shanghai. He spent longer in the nick than Mandela, at exactly the same time in history, his crime, he preached love and hope in China, never hurt a fly. No bugger lifted a finger for him, no pop concerts, no Bono or Sting songs, nothing. Nada. Whatever way you interpret the great figures of our history, make sure you do it from your own bat and not because the FA or the media tell you to.
Having worked with afrikaaners as well as members of the ANC over my working life, the fact that Mandela controlled one to stop it attacking the other when the handover took place was a miracle akin to the loaves and fishes in my book. I recognise that he was jointly responsible for some of the ANC violence in the early 60's but being of a generation that saw the South African forces at their worst in Sharpville and then Soweto I have to marvel at the outcome of the last twenty years. Yes it could all go to hell in a hand cart in the next twenty but the testimonies of many million white south Africans who remain working in the country is sufficient evidence for me of the Mandela effect. One of my former colleagues was at that Rugby world cup final and described it as more than a sporting event. There are lessons for all of us in what was achieved, not the least not to judge yesterday by the standards of today and to look to the greater good. Was he a football hero who should be applauded, many in football who went to the South African football world cup believed so and we as a club benefitted from some of the players in SA national football team that he helped to flourish . I would happily stand and give my one minutes applause.
Svc fair points, but there is no statue of limitations for the victim. If the FA want to adulate and deify anyone then they do that as an organisation themselves not use the smoke and mirror technique of a minutes applause from those that happen to be attending a football match. That hardly represents a balanced view as the posts on this thread will indicate. The last politician to be remembered at a football match was perhaps the greatest Briton of all time and someone the world certainly owes a debt of gratitude - Churchill in 1965. Not even Attlee got one, the man that introduced the national health service or Thatcher who defied the might of the Argentine Navy to save a few penguins. Why do we feel obliged to honour someone that did nothing for this country, except help promote the eighties bands like Simple Minds,Annie Lennox, etc? Keep politics out of sport. Or at least keep sport away from politicians.
It is a common misconception that the ANCâs leader in the 1994 South African elections, Nelson Mandela, had been jailed for his âpolitical beliefs.â He was in fact acquitted of treason after a 4-year trial, but re-arrested a few years later, and sentenced to 5 years imprisonment for launching an armed insurrection (as ...founder and commander-in-chief of Mkontho We Sizwe-MK; the ANC's militant win...g). However Mandela conspired not just to bring down the governmentâhe was planning on killing tens of thousands of civilians in his quest for power. He was then later charged with 193 counts of terrorism: for sabotage and for trying to smuggle, prepare, or manufacture (mostly Soviet-bloc) munitions, including: 210,000 hand-grenades, 48,000 anti-personnel mines, 144 tons of ammonium- nitrate, 21.6 tons of aluminum powder, and 1,500 timing devices. Nelson Mandelaâs personal Makarov pistol (âfor killing white policemenâ) which he buried in Rivonia before his arrest during the ANCâs âarmed struggle,â was never recovered. He was given this pistol & ammunition during a clandestine visit to Ethiopia, where he received training in sabotage. These multiple charges were clearly not âtrumped upâ political charges: In his eloquent closing statement to the court, Mandela candidly admitted his guilt on the charges of sabotage, adding that he was, if needs be, prepared to die for his ideals. It was apparent from the huge amount of smuggled explosives that he was not planning to die alone. The judge at his trial comment that âpersonal ambitionâ may well have played a role in his plans. Mandela was never tortured during either his interrogation or incarceration (as he undoubtedly would have been in a black African nation). Most have been denied access to the truth by the treacherous liberal media and understand why Amnesty International never accepted him as a political prisoner. Even as the world finally woke up to how wicked Winnie Mandela is, we must face reality about how dangerous and deceitful Nelson Mandela has been. The fact is that even Amnesty International refused to take on Nelson Mandelaâs case because they asserted that he was no political prisoner but had committed numerous violent crimes and had had a fair trial and a reasonable sentence. Nelson Mandela was the head of UmKhonto we Sizwe, (MK), the terrorist wing of the ANC and South African Communist Party. He had pleaded guilty to 156 acts of public violence including mobilizing terrorist bombing campaigns, which planted bombs in public places, including the Johannesburg railway station. Many innocent people, including women and children, were killed by Nelson Mandelaâs MK terrorists. South African President P.W. Botha had, on a number of occasions, offered Nelson Mandela freedom from prison, if he would only renounce terrorist violence. This Mandela refused to do. - Invictus Idolatry
It's all gone quiet since your excellent post, TC. There is no answer to the senseless murder of women and children.
