Mandela - general discussion thread.

I'm not throwing an olive branch, I don't need to. Your Lee Rigby post is in with all the other Lee Rigby posts. Do you really feel using the incident to try to point score on a football message board is respectful to the memory? You drag this up from time to time and get the same answers. You already knew the answers anyway.

What exactly are you after? It looks like you're waiting for others to tell you you're right to behave like you are, or you're a spoiled kid upset at not getting his own way.

 

Lots, but also a recognition of good and bad, right and wrong, reasonable and crass . . .

 

Think you've gone native up there in emotionally- incontinent geordie land.

When emotions are in, brains are out.......

Suggest you wind your neck in, stop posting such emotional tosh and revisit the thread when you're more coherent.

 

Everything by degree, hey. Not shouting, just expressing another view and quietly asking him to **** off. Off to bed any way, so it's an end for me.

 

Into the 3rd hour now......

 

I can't keep up with all the separate arguments on this thread. It's hurting my head.

 

I think it helps highlight why discussions on politics and religion are not encouraged on here.

 

What was your opinion of all the people on here jokes about Thatcher's death within minutes? At least no one has said they are having a party or dancing with joy like they did with Thatcher. There are some hypocritical bastards on here.

 

Exactly the same, I thought it crass, regardless of political belief. Have you just made an assumption?

 

Wow. It would appear this forum is plagued with just about as many twisted right-wing cnuts as the City Independent one...

Glad to see Dutch taking a neutral stance

 

It's good for people to let it all out from time to time in a controlled environment.

It's like that Star Trek episode where they all go mental for a day to purge their emotions. Return of the Archons they call it for all you non trekkers that are interested. Check it out.

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I think you do very well for someone who is aged 109 as per your profile details.

 

Mandella made a difference; he was subject to oppression and he fought tooth and nail to stand up for his beliefs and it ultimately paid off. Now, that has to be applauded.

However, he was actually a member of the communist national party and he was responsible for organised terrorist attacks. He was willing to commit these acts in the name of his beliefs and he openly admitted it. Now, isn't that kind of what Al-Queda do? Whether you agree with the Westernised view of it all or not, committing atrocious acts in the name of your beliefs does NOT make you a hero. I've lifted this from Wikipedia (it's late, sue me):

Operating through a cell structure, the MK agreed to acts of sabotage to exert maximum pressure on the government with minimum casualties, bombing military installations, power plants, telephone lines and transport links at night, when civilians were not present. Mandela noted that should these tactics fail, MK would resort to "guerilla warfare and terrorism."[103] Soon after ANC leader Luthuli was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize, the MK publicly announced its existence with 57 bombings on Dingane's Day (16 December) 1961, followed by further attacks on New Year's Eve.

Now, that isn't on. Whatever you believe in. If it was, we'd have a lot more people bombing the **** out of stuff they found unfair. Did the ends justify the means? In the long term and certainly for the dissolution of apartheid, yes, but the way he was planning to go about it was all wrong. It was only in his later years that he seemed to become a lot more philosophical and peace-orientated.

That said, I don't really know the in-depth history of him, only what I've read and seen on TV. Just an opinion like.

 

But MK grew out of the ANC purely because protest and demands for democracy and an end to racial segregation were met by state violence. The old Boer power elite regarded all blacks and 'coloureds' as inferior.

The Sharpeville massacre occurred on 21 March 1960, which precedes the MK campaign - 69 shot dead.

[video=youtube;rVMPlVBm29Y]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rVMPlVBm29Y[/video]

 

[video=youtube;o3NJwyzFlTE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o3NJwyzFlTE[/video]

 

[video=youtube;ijb9auSQRso]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ijb9auSQRso[/video]

 

[video=youtube;-CNewYDzeDg]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-CNewYDzeDg[/video]

 

Ultimately I had to ask myself, what would I do if me and mine where being killed and abused as second-class human-beings; the answer led me to understand why he followed the path he did, what took far more effort was understanding his forgiveness. Not everything is black and white, is it, Tommy? His is an interesting story, I recommend you look into it.

 

Every thread on the internet I've seen about this is full of numpties arguing at each other, what's the point of even starting another one. Mandela won the Nobel Peace prize and is universally praised by nearly all world leaders so that's enough for me to think he might have had a just cause and conducted himself in the right way. Other than that this is a football forum leave the politics and numptyism out of it.

 

This is a time I find weird to be honest. I really do think people feel they have to be seen to feel sad rather than feeling genuine sadness.

He was 95.
He lived an amazing full life that most of us cant even begin to comprehend.
He was a man who used terrorist activity to achieve what he wanted.
He was a political figure in a different continent.
He wasnt a martyr or a saint.
He made a difference.

I honestly think people latch onto him because it makes them feel less guilty of their own country's prior racist imperial campaigns.It is no doubt seen as hugely controversial to say so and I expect a rampanyt historically selective backlash but isnt he a bit similar to Gerry Adams who most people would declare they despise?