Someone's got to say it and I've been slagged off here for saying from day one, but he has to go before the damage is too great to both our reputation and the morale of the players and the fans. I've seen enough, the guy is plainly a competent manager but is simply out of his depth at OT, something that nobody can tell in advance until they take up the job. I'm not saying SAF was wrong to annoint him, just that in the cold light of day it hasn't, and more importantly, won't work for a number of reasons. Yes the squad needed strengthening, but essentially the same players who won the PL last season are out on the pitch, so in asking what is the problem, what has made all the difference, the simple answer is Moyes. 1) Moyes plus Phelan and Rene might have worked in the longer term with the new man coming in and making changes to players and integrating his own coaching staff into the established methods at carrington - methods that clearly worked. Moyes has got rid of anyone and everyone with knowledge of the present squad and their training needs, just look at the rumours of the harsh training and then at the sudden re-emergence of injuries to RVP, so characteristic of his Arsenal days. Under Rene and MP he was injury free. 2) From his Everton days Moyes has become fixated with the mindset that modest results are to be considered as good, the same as most mid-table managers scrapping for points and as a result Moyes is too defensive in both his tactics and his substititions. Just look at the way teams set up against us - all they have to do is nullify Rooney and then they swamp us in midfield. Long periods of pressure in midfield are now beginning to result in goals against and in playing so much in the centre of the park we have lost the ability to counter-attack. 3) After the debacle of the last transfer window we would all hope that targets are firmly in sight and planning well advanced for january, but how confident can we be that any player worth their salt will want to join us? I'm trying to imagine some world class midfielder sitting down with his agent and mulling over some tentative approach from OT. Seriously, would you join?. Little or no chance of CL football next season, a world cup looming and national team selection of critical importance - would you really go to some mid-table PL side to stake your claim for a seat on the plane. 4) While a great many will be saying "Give him time" - as you have from the start, the cumulative damage is only going to mount. Share values will fall, sponsorship revenues will decline, PL TV revenues will decline, CL TV and placings revenues will be non-existent - all of which impacts on our financial clout to attract and reward top players to arrest the slide. Moyes was completely the wrong choice. He was Fergies pal, and that was it, the old boy thought he was a safe pair of hands. The harsh truth is that he will never succeed however long he is in the job. Our style of play is simply not in his DNA, it is as alien to him as stepping back and letting experienced hands take training. We needed someone who produced sides with attacking flair, someone who played our style of football to begin with, but who would mould the club to their thinking over time. All that has happened is that Moyes is bringing his over-cautious style to OT and is failing us all badly as a result. Bring in Jurgen Klopp.
Had United won against Everton this would not be an issue, there would be talk of momentum and closing the gap even before getting into the usual post Christmas stride in the league. So one game changes all of that? with people who want him gone, a mere few months. never enough time, if Moyes goes and the next manager fails to deliver in a few months should he be sacked too, revolving door with managers coming and going, even with money and players that is not a good thing, Chelsea for example, all you can go for is cups with a revolving door, forget the league. Moyes needs a couple of seasons to build a team, after having one man for decades at the club this was always going to be painful. Moyes cannot be judged with any degree of fairness at this point. #toosoon
Moyes never had the right mindset to be a successful United manager imo. His pre-programmed 'safety first' attitude is the polar opposite of what United fans have been brought up with. When under pressure he ALWAYS reverts to type & this will ultimately prove to be his undoing.
Moyes is a ****ing genius of a manager How many other men could undo twenty years hard work in the space of four months??
Utd and Moyes knew long before Everton that he was going to OT so unless Fergie wanted the current situation there(conspiracy theories)he should have taken Moyes there a couple of seasons earlier as his assistant manager to ease him into the job.
A case of the Emperor's new clothes for most - or is it because many feel I am right and don't have an alternative argument other than 'wait and see' - 'give him time' ............where is the longed for improvement going to come from - bought in players in January or some startling revelation during training at Carrington that nobody thought of until mid-season. Still it is Christmas soon, miracles do happen.........
Of course you're entitled to your opinion but I personally don't agree with it. Even though this squad won the league last year I personally don't think SAF left the squad in a good position for the next manager coming in. It's not exactly up there with the best squads we've had. It's for that reason why I think Moyes should ber given time, time to build his own squad, implement his ideas make his mark on United. Things were always going to difficult after such a long stable period under one manager. I'd give Moyes 2 - 3 years to do this. I appreciate it that's a risk but I still think that's what we should do.
I don't think you should be calling for a managers head at this point, have faith in your manager and give him time.
Completely agree. The knee jerk 'sack him after 14 games' reaction is probably what some people were arguing for with SAF back in the 80s, and what a great idea that would have been. You can only judge a manager over a full season - making some rash switch in mid season almost never results in any substantial improvement - 90% of the time the new manager is sacked the following year which just means another write off. Added to that, Moyes had the hardest job in football this year - only three managers have retained the league title since WWII and none of those did it in their first season. Taking over the champions is hard, as is attempting to improve their squad. Everyone says "spend lost of money, buy new players" but it often ends in tears (Veron, Berbatov, Shevchenko, SWP, Javi Garcia etc). It takes time to rebuild a title winning team, particularly one which is getting on a bit like ours, and if Moyes isn't given that time then all we'll do is be like Chelsea after Mourinho left - a few decent seasons, but in general we'd be going backwards a little bit more every year.
100 % agree with your assesment that Fergie left a squad that was ready for a rather complete face lift. It can also be stated with some confidence that as this was over 20 something years of History to replace that ANYONE would have had a problem in the first Season(s) however ........ If you and I could quite clearly see that the squd needed a major overhaul how did Moyes not? How could he possibly have thought that Fellaini was the answer to the problem at a cost of 12.5M additional that was needed to outlay? You will of course give Moyes a real chance to get this right and you have a chance of winning a domestic Cup which even kept Fergie happy from time to time but cannot see you coming close to overhauling City, Chelsea or Arsenal in that order which leaves you with fight for 4th with Liverpool, Tottenham and Everton in that order. Even during your unbeaten run things haven't looked right (although I still cant work out the Leverkusen result), Van Persie is once again becoming injury prone, Rooney (although magnificent this Season) is starting to become petulant and as for .. Welbeck, Chicharito, Young, Nani, Cleverly, Fellaini, Anderson, Valencia, Smalling, Jones, Vidic, Ferdinand - they frankly look no better than say a Newcastle Hell let's remember that the genius that was SAF also got it wrong on alot of occaisions, who will forget: "I can let go of Pique as I've got a much better player than him in Johnny Evans!" -- Oooooooooooooooohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh It's just that Fergie could right a wrong - Moyes doesn't have it in him. You know you're bang in trouble and think that because it's Man Utd that it will always come good - Well maybe you can remember or maybe you cant - From 1967 up to 1992 you rarely did. Believe it will be a very long time before you win the League again whatever you do now and the OP is right, to minimise this you will have to swallow that pill and say goodbye to Moyes - But that just aint gonna happen.
Do you all not think that Ferguson knew exactly what was going to be required in terms of rebuilding the squad? Of course he ****ing did. That's why he retired when he did. He couldn't face going through that magnitude of rebuild, so he finished at the top. Selfish jock twat
How did this exact same side win the league so comfortably though?? I expected United to struggle a bit, but 12 points behind Arsenal of all teams in early Dec (normally the other way round) is quite shocking. Was Fergie that good, last year an enigma, Moyes that bad...?? Can't quite put my finger on it. Maybe a combination of factors.
Because if it was that easy then every ****er would be a football manager! Everyone saw that the Utd squad has needed an overhaul for a few years now, but SAF didn't manage it. Heck, people have seen that the Chelsea squad has needed an overhaul for the best part of a decade now, but they've poached every manager they can find and are still as reliant on Terry and Lampard as they were in 2004 and still haven't replaced Drogba. And Liverpool still haven't completed the 'overhaul' they started when Souness left! Properly overhauling the squad takes time. I for one would rather have a manager who takes the time to do a proper job, rather than one who does what all our rivals have done for the past twenty years, namely do a quick fix job that gets the team performing for a year or two before dropping off the pace again. I'd certainly rather us spend a couple of years winning **** all and have a real chance of getting back to challenging at the top on a regular basis than become like Chelsea, Liverpool or Arsenal - flattering to deceive with a trophy or two and a half arsed title challenge every three or four years whilst convincing themselves they are still one of the 'big' teams. Moyes may not be the manager to get us challenging at the top again, but I'd rather give him a bit of time than dump him after four months on the basis that he hasn't signed a world class CM. Hell, SAF didn't sign a world class CM in his last twenty years, and in all honesty Yaya Toure is pretty much the only world class CM to have come to the PL in the last decade or so!
Because, despite what Chelsea fans would love to believe, stability really is key in the league. Regardless of the gap in quality between SAF and Moyes, a team made up of SAF's players, most of whom had five years plus of SAF's management and being managed by SAF, were always going to be better than a team of SAF's players being managed by someone else. Anyone else. Same with Chelsea - the core of your team is still Mourinho's players, so if you'd kept Mourinho for the past six years instead of firing him at the first wobble it's a fair bet you'd have won a lot more (particularly more league titles) over that period than you actually have.
