Read the very first post on the thread Staines. I think auld Stan may have messed up the question a little bit. Then again, I genuinely wasn't aware there are actually people out there who believe its not up to the Scots to decide on their Country's fate! Maybe Stan got the wording of his question right after all.
Thank you Swords (i think) being a boy from the bush in the 50s i'm not as well versed as some on here, i know what i meant but i'm not so sure everyone else does. PS I will have a look at forming a Shepherds Bush for independence debate at a later date.
I thought the nature of true religious belief meant that it underpinned all the believer's actions and opinions. Your belief is relevant in terms of the absolute certainty in which your express yourself, a degree of certainty unavailable to me (to my delight). Anyway, why would you not want to be described as a part of the religious right? You are both religious and politically on the right, its very apt. However, if you do religion on Sunday and are a Tory the rest of the week, forgive my ignorance. My opinion of you is based solely on what you write on here.
No - your opinion of me is clearly defined by your feelings towards those who call themselves Christians. I'm able to reason things out on the merits of the question at hand - whether the question is about politics, sport, religion, or whatever. I'm really sorry that you can't do that. Again - this is about the question of Scottish independence, not about my religion. Please don't bring it up again when it's not relevant, especially when you refer to it in a way you paint as negative - that borders on a personal attack. As does your comment about not 'doing religion the rest of the week'. Which is a statement that actually does offend. Thanks.
I hate to have to break it to you Willy but your "backing" or lack of it is totally irrelevant. This is the decision of the Scottish people alone. You and I have zero say in it.
OK, seeing as it upsets you I won't comment on your posts in future, which is a shame as this is supposed to be a place for debate. I stress that my opinion of you is wholly based on what you have written on here, the way you write it and your responses to others. If you don't like your beliefs and opinions challenged and questioned, don't share them.
I assume you mean YOUR first post Swords ? Forgive me as I missed it completely. It echoed my sentiments 100%. Obviously it's for them to decide, but if it was MY opinion that was wanted....as an Anarchist, I could only vote for them to have their own rule (as should the Welsh, Cornish, Home Counties etc etc)
How about re-reading the thread title. it's an opinion - something I would have thought you would understand, having so many of them yourself.
Excuse me? Don't come all that with me. YOU brought religion into this thread, YOU mentioned it in a sentence with my name in, and YOU are the one ascribing a political 'right wing' view to me based on what you read on a different thread (which was all about religious belief. This isn't the place for discussion about religious belief - this is about our opinions on Scottish independence. If you can't stay on track without bringing in your negative views on other people's faith into it, then can I suggest you refrain from sharing your own biased (and in many ways bigoted) views about me and others on here. So for a third time - please make no more reference to my beliefs on this thread. Thanks.
How far down would you break the basic unit of 'government' (clearly the wrong word)? And now I fear for my bags in Terminal 5 as I know an anarchist is at the helm!
Jeez.... This thread isn't about me. So please keep your off-topic opinions quiet? Please tell me what your comment has to do with the prospect of Scottish Independence, and I'll reply. Otherwise, no.
I've been debating with myself about getting involved in this thread. Having moved from London to Scotland 15 years ago, I have a view from both sides. I am eligible to vote in the the referendum, as I live in Scotland. I personally am worried that the "yes" vote (i.e voting for an independent Scotland) will succeed because of the empty promises that Salmond is offering, without backing up his words with the factual sums. He has promised that we will all be up to £600 better off with Independance, but fails to say where these sums come from. He also fails to point out where the "handouts" from Westminster will be replaced, just stating that the revenue from oil should cover this - what happens when the oil runs out in 30years. The inclusion of 16 year olds in the voting process is also of great concern, as I don't believe that young adults of this age could grasp the gravity of their decision in the long term. Salmond is relying on the romanticism of an Independant Scotland, and you can guarantee a run of Braveheart/Rob Roy films in the lead up to the election to sway any of the undecided voters. This is not a decision that should be relied upon by using the heart - the head must be used as this is going to be a decision that is going to affect the whole of a Union, and there will be no turning back. Most of my close friends will be voting against the chance of Independence, however, there are a few who are swayed by thought of an Independent Scotland. What has surprised me is the level of discussion on this board regarding this issue - I believe that the majority of Scots actually believe that the English don't care about what is going on up here! I thank you all for you're input, as it has made me feel less alone stuck up here, and has given me plenty of food for thought.
I have an image embedded in my brain now about what Stainsey looks like and I know it will never leave. Vivian from The Young Ones!
Good question sb, and to be totally honest I don't have an answer. It would be a matter of seeing who wants to break off, who wants to stay and who wants to do what for the community. Bit of a 'fuzzy' answer I know but all I've got time for before my shift starts . Fear not for your bags......For they have nothing to lose but their tags
That's a new one Swordsie boy. I have Joe Pesci, Danny Devito and now Vivian !!!! Dunno which one I prefer to be honest
Interesting stuff from the heart of the action Steelmonkey. Agree the 16 year old voting is a concern. The fact that the Scots have voted the SNP in twice, while their ultimate agenda has always been totally transparent, would indicate that there is a basic wish either for independence or at the least more devolved powers, but the opinion polls show the reverse. Cameron was very clever to limit the question to a basic 'in or out' one, when I think the SNP wanted a 'devolution max' option as well. I've made my views clear on practicalities vs romanticism, but one other thing to take into account - will the English (basically London) subsidy for the extra public spending per head that takes place in Scotland carry on forever if it stays in the Union? There has to be a leveling down at some stage, especially as this spending represents such poor value for money in terms of health status in particular. Another big squeeze on public spending has to be more evenly applied. Obviously we care, this poll has had more voters than the Player of the Month one!
The SNP have been voted in due to the lack of any credible opposition. The Tories are still loathed for what Thatcher did in the 80s (so much so they were celebrating when she passed away) so they have no chance of repairing that damage for another generation. The Scottish Labour party were as inept as their English counter-parts in the final years of their last tenure. That leaves the Liberals (never going to win) or the Scottish Socialists (a liability) so it's no surprise that the SNP were elected, especially as Salmond has proven that he's very adrpt at spending other peoples money (Westminsters) to give free prescriptions, free childcare, free education. However, I wouldn't trust him to be in charge of his own treasury. He's made promises that just cannot be funded from within. Westminster will cut back the amount of funding if the Union remains, of this I'm sure, but they will obviously keep this under wraps until the Independence issue has gone away. As you rightly said SB, I think a fully devolved Scotland would be the best for all concerned, but that option is not on the agenda at the moment (maybe if Independence fails, Salmond will re-visit this option) I'm all for the romanticism of an Independant Scotland, but I feel the long term economic ramifications of such a decision could be devastating
I have not voted as I do not feel I have enough of a handle on the core matters to make that decision. I did note that in the same week that HS2 was taken to Parliament in a 50 000 page document, Salmond presented his document for a whole new nation of less than 600 pages. I'm probably not comparing like with like but a) it made me chuckle and b) it made me wonder how well though out Salmond's document was. I guess I ought to read it to find out though I will pass on reading the HS2 document!
