You can't replace someone like Stevie.. but that doesn't mean we shouldn't move on when the time is right and I'm sad to say, that time is approaching. Games in recent times, more often than not have sped past him, the last derby being an example, it was so easy for Everton to pass or even worse run/walk past him, on the few occasions he didn't even bother tracking back. I agree with others, he isn't the Box-to-Box player anymore, either play him as a sweeper, just in front of the back four and don't allow him past half way, or, and where I think Rafa would have played him, play him up front, just behind the strikers, however that brings into question, where to we play Ford, right now, he's more creative (from open play) that Stevie. #overtoyoubrendan
JB I totall y agree with you. Gerrard may want to carry on but that is not in the long term best interests of team. Personally I think the demands of this season plus a reasonable WC performance will prove to be the highpoint at which he forgoes the need to be included as a regular starter.
Aye, but those last three years of his career were after he'd turned 36. Gerrard's still 33, so no reason he can't play another three full seasons before dropping off if he plays intelligently. When Scholes was 33 he was scoring against Barca and pulling the strings in a CL final. Both times in a two man CM. Scholes is also not the best comparison given his asthma always prevented him having the kind of engine Gerrard has. A better comparison would be Giggs - his legs aren't what they were, but he still keeps going by not going silly bugger and running all over the place. Gerrard could definitely do the same if he takes care of himself and, like you say, he stops charging around like a 25 year old.
Spot on Swarbs but the thing is he doesn't charge around like a twenty five year old anymore....and yet he still gets criticised by his own fans....for not being a twenty five year old anymore
Most (all?) of his assists are from set pieces though. The fact that he's top of the league assist charts doesn't mean he's playing well, it means he takes a great set piece. His passing is still sublime, but he does leave gaps in the midfield when he pushes up.
Thats simply not true. He gets stick for not tracking or attempting to recover possession when he or a teammate has lost it. This isn't him chasing twenty yards and making a last ditch tackle either. I'm talking about when the ball is only five yards away and turns his back on play out of disgust for either himself or a teammate. You can't do this in a two man midfielder and in those latter years, Scholes never turned his back. Giggs doesn't either!
It happens once in a blue moon yet any error he makes or perceived "laziness" is pounced on in a second. I see players do it every game both on our side and the oppositions. We all know (or should do by now) that he isn't a box to box player anymore and defensively he will get found out at times. So why play him deep? Jimmys suggestion to play him out on the right isn't actually such a bad one even if it was made tongue in cheek. No reason why (on occasion) he couldn't play there but most of the time he should be playing IN THE MIDDLE. The other thing that some people don't seem to realise is that players are often given advice by managers for their own benefit. Is it so tough to understand that Rodgers thinks he can get more games out of Stevie if he tells him NOT to run around like a blue arse fly anymore. How do you think BR managed to get a full season out of him last year? He's quite obviously told him to slow down a bit. Do a bit less than he used to. So is he "turning his back in disgust" because he's lazy? Or because he knows the managers told him not to go looning around like he used to (and IMO probably still wants to)? Let me put it this way...if BR told him to go flying around all game like an ill-disciplined schoolkid do you think he wouldn't? I think he'd relish it.....but end up getting injured once a month.
It happens in every game but you are right that others do it too. Glen Johnson is the biggest culprit for it. I agree on the tactics front (you must have seen my opinion on this by now?) but that is no excuse for not running five yards!!! I don't want to see the energy sapping defensive runs he used to make, I want to see him save energy to influence the attacks, but he is still part of the team and needs to do his bit. Turning his back (whether it happens once or twenty times a game) is bad, but as captain its a ****ing disgrace, especially if he lost possession and especially when we are supposed to be regaining possession quickly! What do the younger players think when they see it? BR managed to play Gerrard (plus Agger, Johnson, etc) for a full season because he rested players throughout the year. They didn't games (obviously), they missed training sessions instead. There was a article on the Liverpool website about it, they (all players) have their own training schedules designed to get the most and best out of each of them. I love Gerrard and I want to see him play so long as he's performing (which he is atm). I have no issue with Gerrard playing in the middle, but one of two things needs to happen; more energy alongside him or Stevie himself works that bit harder defensively. PS...this is another subject like Skrtel's rugby tackling for me
He won't go on for years if we continue to play him almost every game for the full 90 minutes. We need to have a strong enough team to cater for legs.
Agree with this. We desperately need more options at CM so we can use him sparringly like Man Utd have done with Scholes and Giggs. Chelsea were doing it with Terry and Lampard until Jose returned too. Didn't Wenger do it with Bergkamp as well?
Taking the middle ground on this one. Stevie at the moment is still a fantastic player. His vision, leadership and creativity are as good as they have ever been and having in the team at the moment is great for the team. Having said that, with the system BR employs I can see Stevie's gradual progression to squad player to former player not hindering the club as much as many may have predicted a few years back. A large amount of our creativity comes from our strikers, our full backs or Coutinho. Not really the players sitting in the middle who are more often used to shuffle it about a bit and breaking down play (albeit in a generally spectacular way where Gerrard is concerned).
No G you just want to make an issue about what you consider to be laziness. Well I will not buy that for either Gerrard or Johnson. It is a slur on both of them that they would deliberately not attempt to make an intervention when they believed that there was even a possibility that they could influence play.
Then I suggest you watch them. I've defended both many times and will continue to do so but I can't defend turning your back on play or not trying correct your error. These are the very basics of the games and should be the bare minimum of expectation. However I will admit that the word "lazy" is very harsh. They are professiobal footballers that have had to work very hard to get where they are.
Of course, I could point these instances out in future games but I'd just get the excuse that Billy has already given..."its a one-off". This isn't something I've drummed up in the last couple of hours, days, weeks or even months. It is something I used to point out whilst he was enjoying a fantastic partnership with Torres! It just wasn't a worry then since Rafa recognised it and played him further forward to compensate.
What is one of the first rules that a defender is taught? IF THE BALL HAS PASSED YOU DON'T CHASE IT. It's not about correcting your error but it is all about re-positioning yourself to a viable position on the pitch.
Different situation. I am talking about us having the ball (whether it is Gerrard or not) and losing possession whilst in a offensive position. Whether it is that player that made the error or not, if they within five yards of the ball when possession is lost they you try and get it back. It is especially important for team morale that if you are the one to lose possession and remain within five yards of the ball you try and retrieve it. By not doing, you are leaving your defensive teammates completely exposed and appear not to care. Gerrard does this, not as much as he used too, but he does it and as captain he should be leading by example, lets face it, he's not exactly a talker is he?
It's about (& I think it's up to BR to dictate this) either of the CM's being the guy to sit back just a touch in our attacks so that if we lose the ball , we don't have a situation where both CM's and both FB's end up BEHIND the counter attack chasing it (or in Gerrards case watching it happen: only one of those 4 with an excuse for watching). We need a CM backing the attack up that can quickly drop back to sit with Lucas and the CB's to face the counter or intercept and recycle back into the attack. It doesn't have to the same player every time as long as it's one of them. Personally I think it can't be Gerrard because of his legs but I dont think Hendo is smart enough either. Need a new player and yes, personally I think if we can get a good enough player it should be Gerrard he's replacing/competing as I want Coutinho in the number 10 role. Until then it should be Hendo and if he can't hack it? Then we need two new midfielders. Can Gerrard last for years more? Yes, if we get two more quality midfielders to spread the load and allow Gerrard to be an impact player rather than the driving force he can no longer be..
too true, precisely what occured v everton when he put moses on. both full backs awol and no midfielders which is criminal. its a harsh world when your greatest player ages but its reality. it can't be ignored for sentiment as if it is it'll probably cost rodgers his job. I also don't rally call it lazyness by the by... its simply a fact of gerrard's style. he won't hold and sit in. he wants to get ahead of the ball all the time and can't sit in a defensive line and hold station and shuffle across. he sees the ball and he runs at it. they pass round him and he;s out of it... or he just ball watches or he makes a unproductive run forward where another midfielder would sit and be there for a pass. All of these put him out of the defensive game. Like i said for gerrard to play long term we simply have to stop playing him 90mins every game... in pain... no matter what... 60mins should be his lot and if at 34 he's not mature enough to give his all and not graon as he's hauled off or let the sub affect him then tough. a second half sub impact from gerrard could be very important for us if he can maintain some level of range of running.
That would be why I wouldn't understand any reluctance in doing it MITO, even on Gerrards part. He's already a legend with the club and fans, surely he'd rather extend that by two years as a game winning sub & dare I say it, if we get the bloody right two midfielders in that can support our attack AND defence properly he might, just might steal another major honour, even (reaching now) the one thats alluded him. One thing I'll gurantee him. Two more years of him playing every 90 minutes with two others fitted as best as can around him and we'll not get close to those honours before he retires. Of course it means buying two very very good midfielders.
