Cove's Redzone Pub. The NFL chat thread.

So underneath still a Colt when push comes to shove

 

Oh no I'm still Panthers until I die, obviously. Unless the whole Panthers thing was just taking the piss, of course.

 

They should start a new football team in Texas with the name Oilers, I mean... look at this

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Big Ben might be on his way out of Pittsburgh, just like I predicted three weeks ago. The pressure is building, and we all know where that leads to in sports.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap2000000281897/article/big-ben-defends-himself-against-report-of-bad-work-ethic

 

Predicted? You suggested they should sit him for Bruce ****ing Gradkowski or Landry ****ing Jones (if you knew who they were, you'd realise how funny that was). It's looking like he'll demand a trade, that's very different.

 

I did say that Ben should get out of Pittsburgh one way or another, either on himself or the Steelers should get rid. And still the back-ups can still make an impact even if they look crap at first, just take a look at Nick Foles or Hoyer at the Browns. You'll never know if it could work untill they are actually standing on the pitch. I predicted it was time for a change in Pittsburgh and it looks like that's going to happen, like I predicted.

 

Bruce Gradkowski has been in the league for several years, and is very bad - at least Hoyer had potential and was reasonably highly regarded while at NE. Nick Foles was a rookie, so I suppose Landry Jones might end up alright, but he probably won't because he was terrible in college. Also, Nick Foles was replacing Mike Vick, who for the last couple of years certainly hasn't been nearly as good as Roethlisberger. To suggest either would be better than him is either ignorant or just plain stupid. And let's not pretend you got something right, you wanted Roethlisberger dropped because for some bizarre reason, you think he's terrible.

 

Go read that discussion again, you're delusional. Calling someone terrible with two SB rings is not very sane, and I never called him terrible. I specifically said he needs a change, either in staff or in team. Either the Steelers do it themselves, I.E. drop him or sack the coaches, or Roethlisberger does it himself, those were the two option I suggested in October. And for pete's sake stop using ad hominems as arguments, use them in the GC all you want but not here.

 

I'll happily call Eli Manning terrible and he's got two rings. Those are a measure of team success, not individual success. I'd happily find evidence of you slagging Roethlisberger off (at the very least, suggesting he should be benched to Bruce ****ing Gradkowski which might as well be calling him terrible) but for some reason the search isn't working, but I remember other people commenting on how absurd it was of you to suggest he wasn't good enough to be an NFL starter any more. I remember specifically you mentioned that perhaps he was too old (at the age of 31) for the NFL, and mentioned Tom Brady at the same time. Also, it isn't ad hominem to suggest that an argument is stupid or ignorant.

 

Come on you two kiss and make up

 

You are implying that saying Gradkowski and Jones are better than Roethlisberger is for the ignorant. At the same time you direct that statement at me as if I said exactly that, ergo, I'm ignorant. It may not be a direct ad hominem, but I recognize an indirect one.

And about Tom Brady, I'm still biding my time. They may be 7-2 but things are far from sunny in Foxborough. They may have a very easy schedule this year with their only test so far being the Saints. With the Panthers and the Broncos coming up they can afford to lose both to make it to the play-offs, but I don't think anyone can see them go to the SB. Brady saw half of his team disappear this off season for various reasons and was left without any decent replacements to start with. If that happens again in 2014. I can see him go or retire when there's no SB-chances in the near future. Franchise QB's are the most competitive type and when they don't feel like they can win an SB, they will start to look for other options. Sometimes drastic options if the situations lingers on for a couple of seasons like in Pittsburgh.

 

[video=youtube;AGDaOJAYHfo]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AGDaOJAYHfo#t=367[/video]

 

I'm not going to argue semantics with you, but it's not remotely ad hominem to suggest an argument is stupid. "You're stupid because you're wrong (and here is why you're wrong)" isn't ad hominem, "you're wrong because you're stupid" is.

Alright, I didn't mean to start a discussion on Brady but fine. Suggesting he'll have any thoughts of moving is bizarre. He's been at NE his whole career, and has been incredibly successful there. He's too old to start completely anew with a new team he's got no attachment to, unless a really bizarre situation comes up like Manning/Colts/Luck (which won't happen because it was such a unique situation). He's clearly got no thoughts of going - you suggest the cause for his upsets came over this offseason - but this offseason is when he signed his most recent contract? It's unlikely he'll retire before 2017 (his contract's end) and it's ridiculously unlikely he'll play for a new team before then.

I'm not sure exactly what your "franchise QBs will look for other options" comment is based on - who was the last franchise QB to force his way out of a team? Seriously asking for some examples here, because I can't think of one.

 

Forcing is one option, which is rarely used because it will turn the fans on you. Ben is one of the first to be headed in that direction but there are examples in the past when circumstances forced a franchise QB to move on. Brett Favre, Peyton Manning, Drew Brees all changed from the franchise that drafted them for various reasons. If you look at the list of QB's that are longer than 5 years on a contract at the team that drafted them, it's a short one: Philip Rivers, Aaron Rodgers, Matt Ryan, Tom Brady, Ben Roethlisberger and Eli Manning.

I can't say how or if Brady could leave the Patriots, but this is his 14th season in the NFL, he only has a couple of years left in his body. He is not improving anymore and his team is getting weaker over the past couple of years. They haven't won a SB in 9 years now and they had plenty of opportunities to do so, that has to nag in the mind of a competitive player like Brady. So I am not saying he is going to force his way out of the Pats, it's just a possible move. I can see him sooner go into retirement than leaving Boston for another franchise.

 

If Ben leaves we're royally screwed unless we fix the line. Any other QB will get eaten alive by opposing defences with that shower of ****e we call an O-line.

 

I really can't think of one recent example of a franchise QB forcing his way out. Not one. Favre is the closest to it, but he was old and they were ready to move on to Aaron Rodgers (the reason he left, it seems) so whether he was really a franchise QB it's hard to tell, and it wasn't because of Packers not winning. Manning, I've spoken about at great length many times (for obvious reasons) and I'm not going to do that again, but he certainly didn't force his way out, he was forced out. Brees wasn't a franchise QB when he left SD so he doesn't count either, he had only had one good season. So that's zero franchise QBs forcing their way out because they wanted to win and were frustrated with not winning, so I'm still struggling to tell where you've come up with the idea that franchise QBs try to force their way into a move. Yes, there aren't many QBs with long non-rookie contracts for good reason (although you've missed a few - Joe Flacco, Matt Stafford, Tony Romo just from memory), because there's no point holding onto a QB unless they are a "franchise QB". That's irrelevant to the point that QBs force moves because it's related to most QBs in the world just not being good enough. Even now with Roethlisberger, he's not trying to leave because he's "competitive".

He does have a couple of years left, yes, that's one of the main reasons why I don't think he'd leave NE. He's played for one team his entire pro career, at his age do you think he'd be prepared to adapt to a new one unless he was made to? Retiring before his contract is up maybe. Definitely not this season like you suggested (barring, obviously, something like a big injury).

 

Look who showed up for the game today

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