I went through a phase digging quite deep into it all several years ago, but it just stuffs my head up reading all the different top experts saying the polar opposite of each other. My own view is most of these things are **** ups, and the powers that be spread disinformation and fuel conspiracies to cover up just how vulnerable and ineffectual they really are. It's the same with stuff like Captain Pugwash never having a Roger the Cabin boy or Seamen Staines, despite everyone claiming they saw it.
Craig is right and that it wasnt much of a war at that time. LBJ increased troop levels and Nixon widened the war outside of Vietnam. It wouldnt have been much of factor at the time if Kennedy hadnt been killed. Although Kennedy may have increased troop levels to but common belief is that he would not have to the extent that LBJ did. The Bay of Pigs is believed to have changed Kennedys take on miltary conflict and the reliance on the CIA and military intelligence. This change in his attitude toward the agencies and mitary involvent is the reason that Craigs conspiracies began and why some still believe them. They see that and the extrapulate a need by those agencies and the companies that profit on war to take Kennedy out. In reality Kennedy wasnt a king, he was going to be out of office soon enough and the US was never going to turn into a pacifist utopia. We live off conflict and arms sales. It really seems navie to think that Kennedy was going to be able to stop something that was so much larger than himself or his office. I think it is easy to see Kennedy and think he had that kind of power, in reality with our checks and balances a President has very little actual power. Things like that are really beyond one mans ablity to stop.
You all would really love the show Myth Busters. See if you can get it on DVD or stream it. Every episode they take a series of urban myths or conspiracies or sometimes things for fun and do them. They have a robot guy, 2 guys who did things for hollywood and a few others. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MythBusters
Now I have been to the JFK museum in Dallas, its in the old school book depository building and is a great museum. I looked out of the window from where LHO took the shot and I was amazed he wasn't very far away at all, he was right on top of him really. It would be like someone on the balcony of Station Hotel in Hull shooting the lord mayor driving by on Ferensway. I went to the grassy knoll too and the thing that struck me there were loads of people on that knoll and the say that the second gun man would have been right behind the fence that's there maybe 6 feet away. Now if I had been stood on that grassy knoll and somebody 6 feet behind me had shot a high powered rifle I would have noticed that for sure, they are very loud indeed. There were loads of people there no way could you take a shot at that car from anywhere other than that window without somebody saying "hey wtf somebody just fired a gun behind me"
Found what I was thinking of, it's the numbering of the Presidents where you only get one for consecutive terms and you go again for split terms. Obama is #44 even though he had two terms, but Cleveland is #22 and #24 because Harrison split his terms. With Cleveland though it does spring up, as the Presidential race is so focused on the individual is it common for a party to retain someone as their candidate for the next election if they've just lost one. Cleveland obviously lost his second election, but won the first and third and it seems a bit odd that he got to go for the 3rd having been ousted. I couldn't see it happening now that if Labour won the next election Cameron would be kept as the Conservative leader for the next election. (Lib Dem leaders don't count, they're never really trying to win overall in an election).
Kennedy openly said the war in Vietnam was "Their war". He had no intention of extending it and a lot of Americans regarded him as a commie for that. The Vietnam war and the huge profits made be the US military complex (fore-warned by Eisenhower) would never have happened. LBJ made a complete U-turn on that policy as soon as he took over and virtually gave the military carte blanche in Vietnam (profits and all) Nixon escalated the war to the greatest extremes possible without using nuclear weapons. To the war mongers in the Pentagon he must have been a god.
People did hear the shots from the grassy knoll. On the archive film available you can see them running towards it and witnesses afterwards said the shots came from that direction.
Didn't Churchill get a second bite of the apple in the early 50's after being defeated in 48 or something? I seem to remember as great as he was as a war time prime minister he was terrible in times of peace
Indeed he did, he was in from 1951 to 1955. Not too sure whether he was terrible in times of peace, as a) I personally only have my grandfather's opinion to fall back on and he was 13 when Churchill left in '55, and b) it certainly hasn't affected general public opinion of him. He's still (and likely always will be) considered our greatest ever PM.
True enough but they were trying to get the cops to go that way. If you are interested you should look at the stuff on youtube, there's archive evidence that everyone should try to see before making their mind up.
I perhaps wasn't clear enough, I was thinking someone who was popular enough to lead their party to an election win (Cameron's Tories had more of the vote than Labour did for one of their majorities, and were the biggest party even if they did need the LD's to get the Parliamentary majority), then declined in popularity to lose the next one but was retained for a 3rd election. Churchill became PM the same way that Gordon Brown did, becoming the leader when Chamberlain stepped down. He then lost his first election as leader but won the 2nd. So in a way Churchill could have been gaining popularity right through the time but was just not as popular a choice in 1945 as Chamberlain had been at the previous election. (unless of course I misread it and Chamberlain stepping down was done by calling a General election which Churchill won)
Churchill lost to Atlee in a landslide in 1945 and again to Atlee in 1950 losing by a few seats. He won the 3rd tilt in 1951 even though the Labour Party polled more votes than the combined Conservative and Liberal Party vote. The polls in 1950 and 1951 were the highest turnouts ever recorded with over 80% voting. Churchill's personal popularity in 1945 approached 80% so his rejection by the electorate was a total shock. The link below attempts an explanation. www.bbc.co.uk/history/worldwars/wwtwo/election_01.shtml
I am NO expert on the JFK conspiracy but have read a couple of books for my sins. The evidence that LHO was not an assassin is OVER WHELMING. 1. He was not a good marksman. His US Marines record testifies to this. He also had poor eyesight. 2. None of the top marksmen in the US Army. USMC, US Navy could repeat his feat 3. The rifle was a latch and bolt type of rifle. He could not have got the shoots off in the timescale. 4. LHO was a friend of JACK RUBY and also knew a lot of Dallas police officers, who were implicated ie JD Tippitt. 5. Tippitt was part of the conspiracy and was sent to shoot LHO but LHO shot him instead, hence RUBY had to kill Oswald in the basement of the Dallas POLICE DEPT. 6. The photo showing LHO holding the rifle was a fake. 7. LHO was in the rest room of the Texas School book depository at the time. A police officer testified to this when he entered the building in the two minutes following the shots. How did LHO get onto the ground floor from the 4th floor (I think) in the time scale? there was even a half drank bottle of coke and his sandwiches on the table. 8. LHO's palm print found on the rifle was put on when he was lying in the morgue. 9. The magic bullet theory is a load of crap. Through Kennedy's back then throat then into the guy sat in the seat in front of him! More than one shooter. One at the GRASSY KNOLL. 10. Someone was impersonating LHO in the days leading up to 22/11/63 CONSPIRACY....!!!!!!!
[video=youtube;TEwcTBnrD6k]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TEwcTBnrD6k[/video] If you want conspiracy, I am surprised no one mentioned this version. And to answer Lister's question, yes there are but they are mostly crap. Food at Indian restaurants in the US is generally very mild and bland compared to what you get in the UK. Or India.
Documentary recently screened here on TV called...."JFK:The Smoking Gun". Conclusion is that the fatal rifle shot came accidentally from the Secret Service car immediately behind JFK's car. I do not believe LHO killed him or in any conspiracy theory but am always open to being convinced otherwise!
It has been indicated that Kim Philby leaked the details of the Bay Of Pigs invasion to the Russians whilst being a double agent at MI6.
For anyone who's read Philip K Dick's 'S.F.' paranoia books; seen 'The Parallax View' and 'The Conversation'; seen and read 'The Manchurian Candidate'; etc., etc. - why - anything/any conspiracy is possible (or, even, likely)......
