United have always been synonymous with attacking wingers, but at the moment our wingers are not in great form (barring Januzaj, who can play centrally) and we have some very good players that prefer to play behind the striker than out wide. What do you guys think about the possibility of using our attacking fullbacks to create our width and then packing the midfield to ensure dominance in an area we are not very strong at the moment? Obviously it would be an alternative tactic for use in the odd match, but I think it would be quite effective. Nothing worse than seeing a square peg in a round hole like Rooney/Kagawa/Welbeck playing out wide because our wingers are out of form. If possible I'd prefer to see them playing in their best positions, but then we'd lack width so I think our very attacking fullbacks could provide that, as long as we have enough cover defensively. (before someone points out the obvious, I know our fullbacks overlap and attack as it is. I mean that they focus a lot more on attack than they are currently, so their main job is to attack and create width, and defending is their secondary job. At the moment a fullback's job is defense #1, attack #2.) We could either play with three central defenders as a few of them are very comfortable at bringing the ball out of defence and passing it around (Evans, Rio, Jones), or play with two central defenders and Carrick (or Jones) in defensive midfield shielding the defence. Something like this perhaps: Option 1: ............RVP.......Rooney.......... ................Kagawa................. .......Cleverley.......Carrick........ ..Evra.........Jones.........Rafael.. ..........Evans.......Vidic............ .................De Gea................ Basically the midfield diamond that Fergie tried in the CL at times last year, with a big emphasis on the fullbacks bombing forward, and defensive cover at DM. Swap Kagawa for Januzaj if you like. Option 2: ...................RVP.................. .........Kagawa......Rooney........ .......Cleverley......Carrick......... ..Evra.........................Rafael.. ........Evans...Jones...Vidic....... .................De Gea................ Swap Kagawa for Januzaj if you like. Rooney and Kagawa would be given license to roam and find space, Jones would make forward runs with the ball when space opened up. Both formations would give us much more control over central midfield, and with our attacking players good off the ball movement I don't think we'd lose too much width as they would naturally drift wide if there is space available there in matches. Another reason for this thread is that it would give Kagawa and Hernandez more playing time (in their natural positions) due to the fact that there would be three players up front and not just the two (RVP + Rooney). Th(o)ghts?
I don't think you necessarily need 2 proper wingers these days. Maybe play: Carrick, Jones Rooney, Kagawa, Januzaj RVP or Carrick, Jones Rooney, Fellaini, Kagawa RVP I'm guessing Valencia or someone will play but Rooney will put a shift in wherever you play him and the important thing against Arsenal is to make sure you track their runners. What Chelsea did well against them was having 2 defensive midfielders players which meant that when Arsenal got it into a dangerous area all their midfielders were picked up. The last thing you want to do is go 3 at the back like Liverpool as they only play 1 upfront and their fullbacks can keep your wingbacks busy whilst their midfield runs riot, which in turn pushes your midfield back and isolates your strikers.
This maybe old news or someone telling me porkie pies, but apparently Moyes found Zaha with his daughter, soooo...
UTD are well know to play with wingers, so Sir David needs to buy in a new one for the left hand side, I would sell Kagawa and buy in a a said left winger.
I'd play something along the lines of... De Gea Rafael Evans Vidic Evra Carrick Jones Kagawa Rooney RVP Januzaj Use Jones like Barca often use Maschereno or Busquets to cover the back when the Fullbacks are attacking.
So would I , I think we've got the players who could play a fluid 4 3 3 formation with no bother at all. This would involve Rooney playing slightly wide off the central striker though and Moyes seems hell bent on playing Rooney and RVP as a two man attack (probebly to keep the moanging ****er happy) which means we're stuck with a far less fluid 4 4 2. This needs wingers and we don't really have reliable ones.
Agree with this and what you said regarding why Moyes plays the 442 still. The thing is Rooney, and RVP are world class because of their ability and understanding of the game, and in sure if they were to line up in a 433 they'd figure out what spaces to take up on the pitch where it really wouldn't matter if Rooney started on the right. Januzaj seems to be intelligent and he could probably figure out where to be as well. Shout out to Adnan Januzajby the wy, for an 18 year old to be nowhere near the first team 6 months ago, to now being a regular starter. Props to him and hopefully he can keep his head down and keep working.
Just wish our wingers were allowed or did what they are supposed to. Attack. When they were allowed to attack all game we were very good. Now they are expected to cover defenders its no surprise they are poor.
I'm sorry but are you telling me that Giggs, Kanchelskis, Sharpe, Ronaldo and Beckham never covered their defenders?
Yup. Those guys were only productive because they were allowed to attack. Now that our wingers are not allowed to attack they aren't productive. Absolutely nothing to do with the fact they just produce absolutely nothing when they attack.
They did indeed.... In the 90s.... When every team played 442. Thesedays no quality team has their wide men, wingers or wide attacking mids covering defenders. Just doesn't happen any more.
We're playing 4 4 2 right now. Therefore the wingers, if you can really call them that, must do their bit. Simple as that, it's called a job and they're paid obscene money to do it so if it's beyond Nani and it's beyond Young then they can go and **** right off elsewhere.
Or as ive just pointed out, footballs changed. Beckham was never very attack minded. Of course his ability to place a ball where it needed to be helped loads so he didnt need to be. He also had the best right back around behind him. Gary was a brilliant defender. As was irwin. A few years ago evra was great as well. Good enough to not need constant protection. Rafael is very good now so dont know why he need so much protection. When smalling or Jones line up behind valencia its awful.
UIR, the problem maybe a tactical decision made by Moyes to play a little conservative, but even the chances they do get to attack, our wingers just fail. The biggest problem, and I think most people here will agree, is the fact that we're even playing with wingers! Young needs to **** off, I think Nani has to either step it up or he's gone in the summer as well. Perhaps like you said in another thread, Nani could flourish in a more wide forward role in a 433, but we have to actual line up that way to begin with. Valencia wouldn't work well as a wide forward IMO, but can offer cover at RB and might work in 3 man midfield. I believe he does or has played as a CM for Ecuador.
Valencia in central midfield? Got to be better than the alternatives. ---Valencia---Carrick--- ---------Rooney-------- Nani-------------januzaj -------van Persie-------
Considering what we have now, it's well worth a shot. Plus he could provide cover for Rafael when Rafael makes an attacking run, which will the let someone like Nani remain focused on attack.
Interestingly not only does he often play as part of a midfield 3 for Ecuador he started out as a centre mid. Hes got all the attributes as well, would be a great partner for Carrick and allow Rooney/Kagawa to stay forward more often ( We lose so much with Rooney dropping deep to provide some muscle and drive in midfield ). As you say, he would be able to cover for Rafael and Nani. If anything if its just something to use until January. Wouldnt be the strangest line up weve beat Arsenal with either.
I approve of this, Valencia could bring some much needed strength and mobility to midfield if called upon to play there, and would cover RB when Rafael bombs forward. Congrats on discussing only football in this thread, makes a nice change... Although the changing of the thread title is a rather low blow mods.
