Sorry but I must have missed these 20,000 protesting fans on saturday, where were they? I heard a few Jol Out for a few seconds and that was it. No Banners, no massed crowds outside afterwards demanding his resignation!!!! Is this a Fulhamish type of silent protest while they hope he goes away.
From my position in the riverside stand there was within my vacinity a unanimous Joll out opinion .No shouting and yelling,but a very concerned bunch of supporters,this was voiced to a man within the bars at half time. I and the other 4 or 5 thousand who regularly watched Fulham in those dark 3rd division days realize how far we have come,and in no way wish to see these last 13yrs being undone by an incompetent.
Words like..."They have to get used to him and if they don't get used to him, we've got a problem because I need Bryan Ruiz. Maybe they dont need me but they need Bryan Ruiz, beleive me" I've said it before I think Ruiz will be sold in Jan. A cert if Jol is gone. He's a luxury along with his equally luxury mate Berbatov. Shame the manager doesn't see it that way.
I do not understand his comments about getting used to him and having a problem if not - we signed Ruiz more than 2 years ago now. If anyone doesn't seem 'used' to him its Jol who has consistently switched his position.
That's the arrogance of the guy... How about both of you get used to warming up another team's bench? While when he first joined and last season was up guiding the team this year is sitting on his seat and pathetically watching. At some point he has a flashback about pies and decides to throw his mate Taarabt into the game as he needs some exercise after eating a couple the day before. While half asleep he dreams of holidays to the Caribbean and decides to take off Ruiz as he had enough of the excursion, after all he is enjoying his holiday at Fulham. At the end of the game he takes his notes, replaces last game's team with the name of the team we are playing and gives an interview. Easy job.
It's happened throughout Fulham's history that fans have picked on certain players as being the problem when things are going wrong. Every one has their favourites who they will give more leeway than others when things are going wrong no matter what. And we do tend to defend our own favourites against criticism and try and blame others. Jol also falls into this categories in that we know he has his favourites. Like every manager he has to back these players and his judgement, but the problem I have is with the players when players like Berbatov give up during the game and don't put in the effort to help the manager who has backed him. To me it's all about managers getting teams working in partnerships and so far up front we haven't created any partnership from players who we know are skillful strikers. The problem Jol has is that he doesn't know before if these players will click or not. For instance last season I could see Rodallega and Petric clicking but then we got Berba and it didn't happen.
SBMB I agree and I will raise my hand that I have focused too much on Ruiz towards the end of last season and this season. Reasonable or not I will leave other to judge it. But a manager should be different and rewarding players on their performance not who he thinks should be playing! Example is City with Hart. Also the idea that we must like a player because he is saying so is beyond belief.
What really gets me are Jol's after match comments like these: "Jol said: "I have no fear. In the past they used to say 'have no fear, Martin is here'. I don't fear. Sometimes I worry if the supporters are at my back, but on the other hand it is better that they are on my back than the players' backs." "I felt better when I saw the reaction of the players in the second half." "I get asked about pressure every week and any manager in the league will get this question. If you are in the bottom half of the table you have to win games. It is not as bad as people think, but the only thing is you want to turn it around like Newcastle United did (by beating Chelsea on Sunday). I know there are always six or seven clubs in trouble." "I said to somebody on Friday, if you looked at Roberto Martinez [at Wigan] he was always in the bottom three of the table and after games he was always fantastic. That is where I get my belief from, because I know we are a better team than at least six or seven other teams. We will pick up points and I think we will be fine in the end, but to play against Man U doesn't help." Source: http://www1.skysports.com/football/...ulham-future-despite-manchester-united-defeat Why, instead, didn't he have a rant about the things that went against us; Van Persie's horrible tackle early on, the offsides, the penalty shout, and more ?? Other managers 'protect their players' by deflecting issues at the referee. Why didn'the??
Big fish out of his depth in our small pond. Martinez was 'fantastic' after games because there wasn't much else expectation other than Wigan being in the bottom 3. We might not be the richest club, but we are better resourced than Wigan and not located in Rugby league land. In every aspect (except one, perhaps); attracting fans, players and investment - we are better off.
As one of those 4 or 5 thousand, I'd really prefer it if you don't speak for me Rosc. We disagree on so many things, and it's a bit lazy to reinforce your argument by appointing yourself as spokesman for people who don't necessarily see things the same way. Don't get me wrong, you're point of view is just as valid as mine and you've every right to express it, but if you think it needs propping up by weight of numbers, why not let those people speak for themselves? I don't want to see us get relegated, and I've come round to your view that it would be better for Jol to leave. Personally, I feel you were premature in reaching that point of view, but things have slid for too long now and I think it's time for him to go. That said I don't think he's an incompetent and I dislike the way some fans - you are a prime example - have harangued him for so long. Even when you are talking about the youth sides on this board, you still take the opportunity to make a dig in almost every post. Before Jol, it was Andy Johnson who you constantly moaned about. I bet you were one of the ones who constantly got at Gary Brazil as well, back in 'the dark days'. For the record, if we do go down, the club will still be in a much stronger position than back then. Even if it wasn't, I go to the Cottage to watch Fulham, not specifically to watch Premier League football. If we were in the Championship I'd still do that. If we were in League 1 or 2 I'd still do that, and I'm sure you would too. I'll say again so I'm not misinterpreted: I don't want us to get relegated. But if we did it wouldn't be the cataclysmic disaster that some people make it out to be.
Captain your comment about me speaking on your behalf,when refering to those dark days,ok i maybe should have said the majority of our fans prefer a premiership status than one in a lower league,that is the aim of competetive football to achieve the best of ones ability. As far as haranging Jol yes my views were expressed some time ago,if we were not in this position, I and the many other supporters woul not be quering his managerial ability. I could be wrong, but i fell that a drop down lower leagues would not only scupper our new stand, but because of its real estate value could once again put the question of football at the cottage in danger. Not wishing to sound to santimonious but in those dark days i was one of those who made personal contributions to help keep the club afloat,and yes i do not want to see this managerial incompetent taking on a downward spiral.
Fair point on the future of the Cottage. If that were the case then dropping out of the prem would be disastrous. I'm not sure that the one would follow the other, but dropping now would certainly put the Riverside development on indefinite hold. I could live with that, but losing the Cottage would be unthinkable. I'm sure we all prefer Premier league status to lower division status, but why do you feel you have to speak even for 'the majority of our fans'? Why not just offer your view and let others agree or disagree? Yes we should aim to achieve the best of things, but supporting a football club isn't all about winning. It's about belonging, it's about community and a connection, and all of that remains undimmed whatever division a club happens to be playing in. As for your financial contribution back in the day, again, fair play to you. I contributed to Fulham 2000 as well, although not very much as I was on a voluntary wage (about £40 a week, as I recall) at the time, more than half of which went on my rail fair plus admission money every time I went to the Cottage, which I did whenever I could - probably between half and 2/3 of home matches back then, as some weeks I had to work Saturdays. I'm not saying that to impress, just making the point that lots of us on this board have a similar emotional investment in the club. I'm sure that most of the regulars on this board could offer similar testimonials. The fact that old codgers like you and me were around in the dark days doesn't make us more of a fan than younger supporters who have only known the Premier League days. You introduced the word 'sanctimonious' and, yes, that's a good description of what has been winding me up about some of your posts, that and the undiluted personal bitterness that the objects of your wrath are subjected to on a regular basis. If you won't tone that down - and I say again, you're perfectly entitled to your views and to express them the way you see fit - then at least don't suggest that you're speaking for anyone other than yourself.
Captain we shall allways have our differences,but "santimonious." that cap fits with Jols statements and what his view is on what is best for us fans . As said before he in his mind is never wrong
It was your word, roscafre, and you were the one who applied it to yourself. I was just agreeing. Yes, we will always have our differences, that's what sites like this are for. I'm just saying that I find your tone unnecessarily offensive a lot of the time.
Just to butt in guys. Hanging on to a manager who has lost the fans in my view is asking for trouble, financially. Stepping back even further than the "Black Days". In season 1967/68 we had crowds very similar to today but, when we dropped from the top Division that year, the attendance in League 2 (as it was then) went down on average 7.500 for each game. Worse followed and, although there were a few purple patches on the way, it took thirty years to get back to the top League and capacity crowds. The manager at the start of 67/68 was Vic Buckingham and the similarities with our current manager and situation are quite remarkable. The point is, I believe relegation would be a disaster. It really is difficult to see how the Club would be sustainable and I for one am not convinced about Shad Khanâs commitment to the Clubâs heritage at the Cottage. Iâd also be concerned about our ability to retain the Academy and its âEliteâ status. Footnote: On dropping Divisions. At the end of season 1968/69 Chairman Tommy Trinder said, âWe have obtained planning permission to build a great new stand. So nobody can say we have lost our ambition. Maybe there will be other priorities for the cash. We will have to wait a while⦠We want the club management to do the managing. We will try to make money available when they ask for it. [However] we have decided to tackle the situation from the other extreme - youth.â
I'm probably the only one to think this way, but would a season or two in the Championship be the worst thing? Nobody likes the feeling of relegation, but we have everything in place behind the scenes to survive. Rich chairman, loyal fan-base, decent sized stadium, great academy etc. Relegation would almost force us to get the old heads off the wage bill and begin to bleed some of our talented youngsters into the team. Just look at what Kaca's loan spell did for him in the Championship, if we had another 4-5 players who rose to the occasion, I think we would come back up looking far healthier, a lot like Southampton did. Their players such as Lallana, Schneiderlin, Fonte etc were able to break through in the Championship and continued to progress. We have a lot of decent youngsters on the fringe (Kasami, Kaca, Mesca, Dembele etc) who could benefit massively from a year of regular football in the Championship. Call me crazy.
I am going to add my tupence worth, firstly you lot are a lot older than me at only 46 I feel like a baby on here, and as too giving out gary brazil stick, I know the man who did give him stick, and brazil turned back and said shut up you fat ****, I will never forget that evening game. on the serious stuff, I do not think we have a big fanbase at all, if we went down we would average 12.000 fans I.m.o, we have loads of premiership fans, that are not ffc loyal fans, and if we did go down, I don't think we would come back that quickly, if we did come back, we would need major investment to our squad to compete again, in 35 years of going to ffc very regulary season ticket holder, go to half the away games, yes off to Liverpool for a upset on the cards I have never booed a player or shouted for the manager to go, I just cant do it, there is more chance of me throwing my daughter out on the streets. but it seems jol has run out of ideas, looks like he is losing the dressing room, our defenders are not getting coached properly, we are in **** street, I would still give him 3 more games, and I don't see a obvious replacement lined up
