OT - Über's Open Debate Thread

Not me pal, I ain't no farmer! But I think I know the guy you're on about. Would his name be Noel by any chance?

 

I think you are right mate, was told his name yesterday but forgot it about 20mins later. Didn't say YOU were a farmer, just a QPR fan from Swords. I reckon it's you he's talking about. Bloody small world huh ?

 

Ah yes, I read your post wrong mate. If its the same guy, he left a load of QPR gear in his mates Pharmacy one time for me to go and collect. He posts occasionally on the iQPR Site. There's a few more R's here in this town. One time a guy left a notice on my car window that Chris Day had broken his leg and was out for months (he had noticed the QPR sticker on the car). I couldn't make out the words "Chris Day" clearly and thought he was talking about my brother who played for the local team at the time!

Your mates mate gets over quite a bit as far as I know. A good bloke.

 

The problem is now Swords, my theory of you being a 17 year old Chelsea supporting girl, living in Putney, has been completely blown out of the water .

So much for conspiracy theories eh ?

 

An excellent and well put reply Husky. i was unaware of a lot of what you say, but am also aware that a lot of what you have poissted is written byy the "victors"/..US
i dont/cant doubt your post purely because there can not possibly be any evidence to the contrary. the English won and therefore our history is written by us.
It doesnt matter what the truth is, we believe in the Empire and "her beliefs"
i dont ever expect the like of Col to agree with me as anythinng against the "great Empire" is sacrilage.
Fact is...regardless of how many we have killed..inc ww1, ww2,etc...Our domination f the orld was not obtained by diplomacy...
Now.you are all clever guys..if not diplomacy..then how did we take over the world and create the empire..?

Answers on a postcard please

 

And this being the conspiracy theory thread an' all!

Don't worry about it mate. Imaz was certain I was an Orange Man from Belfast for some bizarre reason!

I still could be a bit of a Travis though.......................

 

Yes, we ruled the 'world' through the end of a gun. Yes, we committed atrocities; but I don't see this as vastly different to other Empires, as Col has pointed out.

How did we create an empire? Well, that's a good question. Obviously, large swathes of territory were taken by force. But other areas, such as New York and parts of Asia were bought from other failing empires, particularly the Dutch. I don't really have rose tinted glasses about our past and I think that our current involvement in places like Afghanistan and recently Iraq was/is completely unjust and motivated by the greed of a very few powerful individuals who supposedly represent their nations.

All I'm trying to point out is that your claims that the English are the worst mass murderers in history probably isn't justified in the terms you've put it in. And that has very little to do with history being written by the victors. The crudsades, for instance, were chronicled by both sides and neither put any emphasis on a people called 'the English'.

 

"the like of Col"...............

Just what the **** is that supposed to mean?
Your trouble is that you think you're right on every single issue, whereas in fact, your ignorance is sometimes breathtakingly apparent to everyone other than yourself!

 

Very good and insightful post IMO.

I think, if you had to answer ' Who were the worse mass murders in history ?'...I would assume the *****ls would top the list. Any other suggestions ?

 

How on earth can you equate World War 1 and 2 with your argument that the British are mass murderers? Your ignorance knows no bounds!

 

Great response Husky..and your fisrt paragraph just confirms my beliefs.
i would never xpect a leveled reply from Col on a subject as close to his heart as this, but, i admire his patriotism
As far as the rest is concerned, we are a bad race but others are just as bad.....
I have no disagreement with your post, just get wound up when people proclaim our nation as something we are not

I guess its the same on the footy pitch. Followers think we should and can win the world cup year after year. they are not willing to accept what we are and how good/bad we are.

Im as willing as anyone to learn and accept diffrent, new, facts. thanks for your replies.

EDIT:..COL. was not meant as a dig too you ..

 

The Celts often appear to be near the top of the most brutal peoples. There are many others of course.

 

Col... how many people did WE kill in the 2 world wars?
this aint about you. get over yourself.
we're talking about hte English as a nation...Of which i consider myself one.!
we are tossers of the highest order, but if you think we are nice, then your ignorance is what i would be more worried about...

im sure all our fathers, relitives etc were really nice bloke during the war werent they...take those glasses off mate.
My father served & all you guy who did will openly accept that we we not the nicest people in the world

COL...open your eyes a bit mate,....you ignorance...nah...cant be bothered...!

 

Grow up little girl FFS
This was an amazing post until you decided to get your knickers in a twist !

sorry..amazing thread.

 

With great respect Queens, I agree with Col. What has World War I and II got to do with us being the 'worst mass murderers' ?
You're post is somewhat clouding the issue being discussed.

 

I'm not sure that I would quite put it like that, Stan. I am as far from the perfect specimen as Piers Morgan is from contrition; there is much that one could find at fault with me both physically and, no doubt, in terms of my character. But if there's one thing I don't lack, it is self-awareness.

I have tremendous sympathy for people who CAN'T look after themselves. I am generally apathetic towards those that WON'T or DON'T, just as long as their decision does not adversely effect me or society in general. I agree there is something a little Darwinian about obese people potentially shortening their lives, but I would be interested in learning the stats around the cost of obesity-related healthcare.

I see little in what you have written, however, to suggest that your opinions on the subject differ much from mine.

[I was heavily criticised the last time I expressed some views on addiction, so I won't reignite that one again.]

 

Fair enough staines...Are we saying that all our kills in the WWr's are legitimate and justified.?
are e saying that we obtained our "Empire:" through pure diplomacy
OR
Are we saynng that we were as bad if not worse than anybody else...

There are are plenty of worrior races around the planet..and we are not one of them. We kill for our own gain, nothing more,
WW1 & 2 were examples of what we can do..even today there id predudice against Germans.....

So Stainsey, i ask you...Are we a nation to be proud of?

 

I can see both sides of the argument on this one. Queens is correct in that very bad stuff happened during the days of Empire but then all Empires were like that. Every big powerful Country in history ran around the World running amok and every small weak Country copped a bit of a hiding. That was just the nature of the beast. That's the way humans operated in those unenlightened times. But there were plenty of good things introduced around the World during the reign of the Empire too, such as parliamentary democracy, various vaccines, infrastructure, architecture etc. Its not black and white.

Rather than focus on what various Empires did or didn't do, I know which people suffered the most. People talk about how the Jews were fu*ked over and there's no doubt they were; horrendously so. But in my opinion, it pales in comparison to what was done to the people of Africa down the decades and Centuries. There's not another race in the World that were bent over and fu*ked more mercilessly than the Africans. They were treated absolutely disgustingly by pretty much everyone and endured more than most.





(P.S. I'm not entirely sure about COL's claim that the Celts were one of the most brutal peoples on the Planet though. I'm sure they were quite savage alright but kill millions of people? I'm not so sure. There wouldn't have been enough people to kill at the time if that were true!)

 

This thread has survived for nearly 600 posts largely because the topics have been debated by individuals that have shown respect for the opinions of others. I have been taken to task by others in generally assertive yet respectful ways, which I have found to be intellectually stimulating in that it has forced me to think hard about how I articulate subsequent posts. To argue effectively takes careful use of words, some grasp of subject, and the ability to differentiate between opinion and fact. It is also advisable not to make sweeping generalisations, but to restrict comment to your own experience in areas where you cannot (or are too lazy to) substantiate them with proper evidence.

But, most importantly, it is essential to tackle the ball and not the man (Travis will be familiar with my use of this phrase) as to do otherwise simply sends discussion into a down spiral of insults and name calling.

Please could we keep things civilised?

 

Wouldn't hold out much hope there. We're one of the most uncivilized, barbarous peoples on the Planet apparently.



(Only jokin' Queensy! )