Schneiderlin isn't actually a defensive midfielder. He's a central midfielder who happens to be very good at defending, among other talents. If there's one thing Wanyama's signing can do for him, it's allowing him to showcase those other talents. Last season it was often Cork sitting deep and allowing Morgan to go forward, but of course Cork doesn't have the physical presence that Wanyama has, and I think that goes a long way to explaining why we were so much leakier at the back last season. If we had Schneiderlin playing as an anchor in front of the defense he'd be solid, sure, but we'd be missing out on a lot too. Rabbitspectrum's definition of a defensive midfielder is starting to irk me now. Just because you're playing in the 2 of a 4-2-3-1, that doesn't make you a defensive midfielder. When Ward-Prowse plays in that 2, he is not a defensive midfielder.
Mustn't assume that Wanyama can't learn either. He is good now and I suspect he will be even better after an initial season in the PL. Lovren said himself that he didn't expect to learn as much from Mauricio as he has done.
Neither player is really an anchor. The way Saints play someone has to pressure the player with the ball as soon as possible. No one just plays an area and waits for players to drift into it. Schneiderlin, being quicker will tend to be the guy who pressures with the ball more often. But Wanyama gets forward on offense as well. Not being as fast, he can't transition as quickly as Schneiderlin. Also, not being a good dribbler or as a good as a passer naturally he will tend to dump the ball off earlier. But we've seen him take shots. The other thing is, we push the defensive line way, way up. So the distance between "parked in front of the back four" and "supporting the attack" is pretty small and even the attacking mids cross back and forth several times during a game. It's really two defensive midfielders playing to their strengths, and Wanyama and Schneiderlin complement each other well and it just so happens that on average Wanyama plays farther back, but it's really more fluid than people think. Both players play in a way that on other teams might be considered a central midfielder rather than defensive midfielder.
Mauricio said that a position is only where you start, not where you finish. Wanyama seems willing to take shots...I expect him to score soon. Hope he starts this weekend.
Schneiderlin and Cork, and this season Schneiderlin and Wanyama, demonstrate the "double pivot" tactic that is so popular these days. One of them must stay back at all times, but it doesn't matter which one. Either is free to move forward as long as the other one doesn't. So in that sense they are both defensive midfielders, but not only defensive midfielders.
Exactly. In reality it tends to play out with Wanyama being the one who stays back, but its much more of a fluid 4-2 as opposed to a strict 4-1-1. Wanyama is free to get forward when he wants to or can. And it was that way when Cork played as well. I haven't done one of those fancy "heat map" or "action zone" comparisons, but it wouldn't surprise me if Wanyama actually plays more forward than Cork did.
rabbitspectrum should read this: http://www.bsports.com/extratime/leaderboard-premier-league-crossing
I know what you are saying but I don't think the last bit is right. Cork actually got forward quite a bit albeit he often did so out wide, particularly on the right. If you are talking down the middle, there's probably not a great deal in it.
I think they are both solid rather than spectacular, and also different in what they bring to the game. Both are good enough to play in the premier league. Obviously Davis is an international but that probably has more to do with the number of players available. Whether JWP will make it to full international remains to be seen. He does remind me a bit of a Beckham who, don't forget, was being loaned out to Preston at a similar age.
http://www.bsports.com/extratime/creativity-leaderboard-premier-league I prefer this one, which ranks him in the top ten most creative players in the league, averaging 3+ shot assists per game, and alongside Steven Gerrard in terms of key passes completed within 90mins. Kids a ****ing phenom. All the Sabermetrics ****e makes him look even more impressive than I already thought he was, surely this is undeniable?
**** it, James Ward-Prowse should stand for election, or go into space or some other ridiculous endeavour like that. I was at his one of his first public U18 games and I was telling people then that this kid was going to be a ****ing star, size be damned. I have never been so pleased to have had a player in the team, and committed to the club. Even Bale, who was clearly going to be very good, Ox and Theo didn't excite me the way this kid does. It is PREPOSTEROUS to me, than people could possibly not be able to see how good he is and how good he will be. In ten years? ****, he'll be the British Iniesta, or Xavi, or one of those other players that people took a while to realise how incredible they are. He's a smart lad, normal, and he can ****ing play. And for that we should all be both proud and grateful.
Yeah, but Cork also got pinned back quite a bit pre-Pochettino. We've been successful at constricting the field of play so everyone kind of plays more level and more forward. I mean, I don't know for sure. You could be right. I hadn't put that much thought into it. I was just saying it wouldn't have surprised me Wanyama was a bit more forward on average than Cork. Didn't really think about the left/right aspect of it or more individual playing characteristics. You are right though, that Cork's map would likely show him making some forays down the right into areas where Wanyama doesn't venture.
After watching the game again, it seems we play a midfield 3 more akin to a 433 formation. Allows anyone of the 3 to move forward knowing there is cover behind. At times JWP was covering rightback and Loveren LB as Clyne and Shaw were so far forward. Scary watching Victor mixing it up around Fulhams box in open play, yet we still had 2 levels of defensive cover behind him. It is a formation that allows only Rickie or Danni to play, but it looks so solid
I once went to a Winchester City vs 'Saints Reserves' friendly. On the Saints team were Le Tiss, Shearer, Ray and Rod Wallace, Dodd and Maddison. Must've been 1988 or close to that. And yes I was overjoyed at each of them playing in the Prem . But JWP isn't quite a Shearer, Or Rod or Matt................................yet
Ideally schneiderlin would play in the wanyama role, and we would have someone perhaps like banega playing in the schneiderlin role. Schneiderlin isn't nearly as good going forwards as he is breaking up the play and killing off attacks, which he is one of the best in the world at imo. He breaks up the play further up the field which is effective but I feel the ball falls to a man who isn't best used to exploit that space. The key point for me though is that if he was playing deeper he would be able to use his defensive skills optimally.
Double pivot. We don't play with a central midfielder, which is what Banega is. We play with two defensive mids, each tasked with the same general duties and good deal of freedom to react to any given situation as it presents itself. I would think you'd be glad to have two defensive midfielders on account of you think Wanyama sucks so bad. It's not like Pochettino forbids Schneiderlin from making tackles. If Wanyama can't get to a man or he screws up and lets him by, Schneiderlin should absolutely be there to challenge the man. And it's not like the problem is Schneiderlin can't get there in time and we are giving up gobs of goals. To the extent that Schneiderlin isn't making as many tackles as before, IT'S BECAUSE HE NO LONGER HAS TO. Which means that just maybe Wanyama is doing his job.
Everywhere I look there is another graph with JWP high up in the stats...I swear the lad would win if they did analyses of best tied boots and quality of pressed shorts
