I agree with most of that but AVB's point was that the players would be more relaxed and so play better football if the atmosphere in the ground was noisier and less tense. There is no need for anyone to be offended by such a comment and every reason to try and help the team
Every manager (and there haven't been many) has lived to regret criticising the fans who contribute his wages. Wenger who i have little time for as a rule, has come under worse fan abuse and has never commented negatively, and he has been pushed on occasion in interview, but to his credit his only stance is they are the paying public and are entitled to that view. I find it absloutely incredible the man hasn't considered the reason behind the tension and anxiety in the stadium, and that of course only applies to those left that are awake!
AVB didn't criticise anyone or claim that the fans were not entitled to their view. He simply pointed out that we play better away from home where the crowd expectations don't affect the players.
AVB is clearly right, and while the style of play doesn't help, it's not the main factor. Most Spurs fans at the ground simply refuse to sing persistently or make any sort of sustained constructive noise. They just don't come prepared to do it, and they prefer apathy or negativity. How most of them have the nerve to cheer and sing when we score a goal I don't know, sheer hypocrisy. 'Sing when you're winning', never truer than down the Lane for most people there I'm afraid. The only thing that gives me any hope short-term is the fantastic 1882 movement, proper fans giving proper support. Though IF any of them are throwing flares, they should skip that one. But overall they are a wonderful beacon of hope, and I hope Spurs are doing everything possible to encourage them. Long-term we can hope for the new stadium, but don't get me started on the delays over that
I really can't stand this relentless negativity. If someone says we'll improve they get ridiculed yet it's perfectly okay to say that teams will find us out and the results will stop. You've never seen a team win with a load of 1-0s. Chelsea in 03-04 had 10 1-0 wins and finished 2nd in the league getting to the semi finals. That's without looking at the 2-1s but they weren't winners right? Fair enough, how about next season? 11 1-0s in Mourinho's first season, they won the league, League Cup and got to the CL semis. And despite spending millions on attacking players in the summer, Jose's side started the season by struggling to score. 8 goals they scored in their first 9 league games, what a bunch of losers! These are the first 2 seasons that sprang to my mind and I'm not going to check out the number of goals that were penalties but teams that have won games 1-0 do win things whether you remember them or not. Mourinho's always set up his sides to put results over exciting football, Fergie too so I don't see why there's such an issue with us doing it too. It's not particularly how I want us to go about every game and I'm sure it's not how AVB want us to go about it either but it's a lot better than we've start most seasons. As for the Blanchflower quote, it was talking about defensive sides wasn't it? Sure we can be more attacking but the reason there aren't many goals isn't that our side is defensive, it's the other sides that have been very defensive. Anyway, maybe I'm just not as negative because I didn't start supporting Spurs because of the traditions of playing exciting football, or in the euphoria of the double winning sides. I don't pretend my chest swells with pride when I hear about the great achievements from before I was born, I started supporting Spurs because my Dad was a Spurs fan and I've continued supporting Spurs because I like it. Things go wrong, **** decisions are made and if you really can't take being 4th in the league playing bad football I have to question how on Earth you made it this far supporting Spurs.
Are you serious?? This whole thread exists because he's criticised the fans, just how else do you interpret this... "There was much anxiety present in the fans which transmitted to the players, so this victory is down to the players. We did it with no help today." If your view is that that is not a criticism of fans, not only do I not know what is then, but I won't discuss the matter any further with you.
What a load of bollocks mate. I've supported Spurs just like all previous generations of my family have, my Grandad was on Spurs' books before WW2 and my Auntie played for the Ladies team. I get to every home game each season, League and Cups. I get to about 6 away ones, whichever my wage allows me to fork out too. I always sing when the opportunity arises and I've been at the Lane when expectations were to jump for joy at 12th or 13th place finish in the league. You can question "how I've made it this far" but I'm damn sure I've put a lot more effort (and money!) into supporting my club than most. I'm entitled an opinion of our team's performances. Some are happy just to go by statistics in that we're in a good position in the League and so everything is Rosie and good for them. With the money the club has spent on players and the price I pay to watch them, there's a certain standard I expect to see. Scraping wins against Palace, Swansea, Hull and Cardiff doesn't give the best of impressions that we're going to do better against tougher opposition. Hence why I voice my concerns at the style of play we've witnessed.
Which parts of what AVB said did you think was untrue? If he said that the fans were purposefully not supporting the feam that would be a criticism
In the last line I wasn't questioning your support, just the negativity that you were showing, considering in the grand scheme of things we're actually doing quite well(even if you don't like the football). The rest was just me blowing a bit of steam off about something on my mind, reading it back I can see how you thought I might've been referring to you specifically but I wasn't. I meant the "anyway" to mean that I was moving on to something else loosely related, I realise now it's not exactly clear though. I hear a lot of fans(Spurs and non-Spurs) argue over trophy records and who did what 60 years ago, that's not what support to me is all about. Should we expect to be entertained with attacking football every week? If we were in the Conference and getting hammered every week Spurs is still my team so supporting them for me is not about the quality of football or success, the fact that we are in the Premier League and doing well is a bonus just as the football we played under 'Arry was. I guess a lot of it comes down to what people find entertaining, us losing or playing badly doesn't mean that I necessarily don't enjoy myself, the atmosphere plays as bigger part as the result for me and there are numerous other factors that make a game enjoyable for me. The first games that spring to mind for me when I think about my favourite games, I think of the second leg against Sevilla where we drew 2-2 and the atmosphere was great, taking my Dad to our first CL game. I'd struggle to describe many of the goals to you or compare the quality of football but I enjoyed those games more than anyothers, one game sent us out and one game.. well battering Young Boys wasn't exactly the pinnacle of our CL achievements that season but I remember it far more fondly. I'll stop again as I think I've wandered off on another tangent
No, not a song this time. But I feel I have to offer some comments on this very important thread. I found myself feeling extremely angry at AVB for what he said. I was at the game, as usual, and my perception of what took place was very different from his. I haven't read all the contributions on this thread (I'm too old to spare the time!), but I haven't seen a single comment that tries to challenge his view that the atmosphere was poor. I disagree! Let's get things into some kind of perspective. First of all, team selection. I was really enthusiastic when I saw that he'd picked Townsend AND Lennon. Perhaps the man's been listening/reading, I said to my friends when I arrived. No such luck. Play both wingers on their wrong-foot wings, and of course what you get is a preference for cutting inside. Where, of course, all the other midfielders are already congregated, and the opposition have gathered to greet them. Add into this mix Sandro and Paulinho in the same team - both tremendous fighters and tacklers, but lousy passers of the ball - and the stage is set for exactly what happened (or maybe for what happened vs West Ham!). When the match began, there was a great atmosphere, and a huge feeling of support. Initially the players seemed to respond. But pretty soon they slowed down, and the usual succession of safety-first square- and back-passes followed. It killed the atmosphere. Whenever the players did manage to get some sort of momentum going, there was loud support. It's not true to say the players did it on their own. Late in the game, Michael Dawson had the opportunity to start an attack. He turned and played the ball back towards his own goal. The massive collective groan which greeted this should have given AVB a lot to think about - it was, after all, the result if his management and strategy that this happened. There was, on the other hand, loud encouragement for those who took an attacking option from time to time. There were times when the noise level fell pretty low, admittedly. They exactly reflected the standard of the play. If these guys have such ball-skills that they warrant the mega transfer fees they've attracted, then I wish they'd start showing some of them soon. Surely you don't lose the ability to pass the ball to a player in a white shirt simply because you're playing in a different country/league? But worse than that, there was a reluctance throughout the team to take on a defender and try to beat him by any individual skill. And probably my biggest beef of all follows on from that. How many times were Lennon and Townsend given the opportunity to run down the line and take on a defender? Crucially: how many crosses did we play in the Hull game? Has anyone tried to analyse why Soldado came to us with such a good goal-scoring record but has hardly found the net as yet in open play? Is there some comnnection here? And does anyone remember those wonderful long crossfield passes we used to see played by Dawson (to Bale or Benny) or Benny himself (to Lennon or Wlaker) or others. Whatever happened to those? Are we too scared they'll give the opposition a chance to score?! And that's the underlying thought, I'm afraid. It's a fear factor. Too much anxiety from the players about giving goals away to take any risks at all. Well, there you are. I'm sorry AVB, but we tried. We tried to cheer the team on. We sang songs and we shouted and we roared. Maybe you didn't hear. But gradually we gave up because we thought that you didn't want such excitement at WHL. You seem to want everything deliberate and slow. Such a shame. There's so much potential there. I even rate you as a manager. But I feel terribly let down at the moment - and to be told by you that it was somehow my fault is a bit much for a loyal supporter of 70 years! End of rant. Now to write the song for next Sunday's Prediction League!
Yeah I did take it a little personally at the time, but as our friends across the pond would say "It's all love homie" . My issue isn't with our league standing, I'm chuffed with 4th, my issue in fact is more of a concern at how we're picking up these points (and the fact AVB had a dig at the fans). In a good few of our games, we've looked lost when in possession, taking Hull for example, so many times did we have the ball in Hull's half only to then play it back to Daws or Chiriches. Throughout the Hull game we genuinely didn't look like scoring and it's not the first time, which for me concerns and in some respects annoys me. The reason why it annoys me is because I know this team is so much better than what they're showing. Seeing as most of the teams we've faced have been of "lesser" quality with Arsenal and Chelsea aside, it's worrying that we've mostly only just scraped wins, or in West Ham's case taken a battering. Entertainment for me is good football and preferably high scoring, whether that's resulted in a win, loss or draw as long as the players have put the effort in and given it a real good go then I'll go home happy. One of the best performances I'd seen from Spurs was a 3-1 loss to Utd a few seasons back, we dominated possession, put them under the cosh, hit the bar and their keeper made save after save yet we came away with nothing. The 5-0 drubbing against Newcastle, they barely touched the ball, we were literally breath taking, Adebayor probably had the game of his life and everything just clicked for us. The 4-4 vs Villa at the Lane, getting that 90th something equaliser felt better than winning a match 2-0! Three completely different results yet all will always spring to mind when talking of entertainment. To me that's what football is all about. IF and it is an IF we manage to maintain these 1-0 wins and keep our top 4 position come the end of the season I'll be delighted, to finish in the top 4 and get CL football is what I really want even if it comes at the cost of what I'd consider entertainment, the only downside will be that we'll probably be quick to forget the games despite an impressive season results wise and so in the future when anyone asks what games stood out, we'll never mention back to the 2013/14 season.
We have played the goons and Chavs and could have won both games,we do better against teams that play attacking football,now we have to work out how to beat teams that park the bus,which we are clueless about,once that happens i would not be suprised to see us play better and start scoring more freely
Taken from the Sky Sports site: Quite a good article.... (for those that cannot open the link I have posted the text below, however some of the images and diagrams don't carry over.) http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/11675/8998925/thats-entertainment "It was a victory where we had to dig deep in ourselves, because we weren't getting any help from anybody. We played in a difficult atmosphere with almost no support. We have a wonderful set of fans, but they can do better. We don't need the negativity that was in White Hart Lane today. I'm extremely happy with the crowd normally. Fans represent the essence of football. This stadium, with the noise it can generate, can be so difficult to play. But not like this." Andre Villas-Boas is getting results. But contrary to the old maxim about football management, it seems there is more to this lark than that. Some Tottenham supporters are uneasy with the style of play. A cursory perusal of just one of the many articles discussing the manager's criticism of his fans this week reveals one below-the-line botherer, claiming to have followed Spurs for 46 years, who has never been so bored. Given that the club currently sit fourth in the Premier League and have never finished higher than third in that time, it's clear something is going on here. Villas-Boas criticises fans Two P words - or should that be a lack of them - seem to be at the heart of the debate. Villas-Boas is calling for patience. Sections of White Hart Lane are demanding more purpose. Tottenham's slow build-up play through midfield differs from the expressive cut-and-thrust of Harry Redknapp's side and is proving particularly testing for some. Here we take a look at some of the issues making it more difficult than it should be for Spurs supporters to fall in love with the current crop... Tottenham - Premier League Rankings Discipline - Number - Ranking Shots - 159 - 1st Possession - 60% - 1st Touch % in opp half - 31% - 1st Dribbles - 140 - 1st Through-balls - 4 - 14th Offsides - 9 20th Lack of urgency Remote Record As shown in the above table, Tottenham have enjoyed more possession of the ball than any other team in the Premier League so far this season. The scoreline will always be the key statistic in football but given that Barcelona top La Liga for possession and Bayern Munich rank No.1 for Bundesliga ball retention, the link between keeping the ball and winning matches is clear. The concern for Spurs supporters is that much of it has been too sterile. Two of Tottenham's back four - Kyle Walker and Michael Dawson - are currently averaging over 60 passes per game. The only other defenders to be hitting those kinds of numbers this season are the Swansea centre-backs Ashley Williams and Chico Flores. Much like the mid-table Swans, retaining the ball appears to act as a defensive measure rather than an attacking one. Ponderous approach play allows the opposition to set themselves and exposing their weaknesses can then become a trickier task. Quotes of the week "We managed to beat the record of away wins because we don't find situations of pressure and our fans are amazing," added Villas-Boas in his comments at the weekend. "Sometimes, at home, it is difficult, and it looks like it drags the ball into our goal instead of the opponents' goal." It's all relative. While Tottenham's 10 away wins last season were bettered only by champions Manchester United, five of their eight defeats came on the road. In fact, even this season, the home and away records are remarkably similar. Those fraught one-goal wins a home to Swansea and Hull mirror narrow away victories at Crystal Palace and Cardiff. Given that teams visiting White Hart Lane are likely to be less inclined to push forward and leave the sort of space for Spurs to exploit on the counter attack, perhaps patience is a particular virtue on home turf. And besides, midfielder Mousa Dembele has another theory - pointing to the size of the pitch. "It's not easy for us," he told the Evening Standard. "We know that some teams are going to come here and make a block, and we don't have a big pitch so it's even more difficult. A small pitch makes it harder. If we have more space, it's easier for us, but we have to find a way." Congestion charge The search for space that Dembele highlights is a challenge arguably made more difficult by Tottenham's use of inverted wingers on both flanks. While man of the moment Andros Townsend is utilised on the right wing, right-footers such as Gylfi Sigurdsson and more recently Aaron Lennon have been asked to cut in from the left. It often leaves Spurs with five midfielders operating in front of opponents who are content to defend deep. Congested? Only Fulham, Stoke and West Ham have smaller pitches by area than Tottenham in the Premier League. Tottenham have had more shots this season than any other Premier League team. But when it comes to shots on target their record dips below Liverpool and Arsenal. With Townsend and Sigurdsson frequently cutting in on their stronger foot in midfield areas, it is perhaps no surprise. After all, such a high proportion of these efforts are coming from long range. Villas-Boas' side are taking 57 per cent of their shots from outside the area. Only Newcastle, Crystal Palace and Fulham can match that and they are hardly teams to seek to emulate. Furthermore, inverted wingers are best complemented by attacking full-backs able to exploit the space vacated down the flanks. But since the injury to Danny Rose following the convincing win over Norwich, Villas-Boas has been forced to move Jan Vertonghen from centre-back or use the right-footed Kyle Naughton at left-back. Not getting to the by-line and testing teams by getting in behind has proven a problem. Andros Townsend: Shots from distance have yielded just one goal this season Striker struggles Strikers thrive on service. Roberto Soldado and Jermain Defoe more than most. It's been a slow start for Soldado at Spurs with three of his four Premier League goals coming from the spot and the team's style of play has contributed to that. As noted by WhoScored, seven of the Spaniard's league goals last season came from either right-footed crosses from the right or left-footed crosses from the left. The use of inverted wingers is not aiding the expert poacher. Roberto Soldado: Slow start Indeed, Tottenham's lone striker - whether Soldado or Defoe - has struggled to get involved in play at all. Despite Spurs having a higher percentage of their touches in the opposition half than any other Premier League team, their striker has cut an isolated figure. While Everton's Romelu Lukaku and Arsenal's Olivier Giroud average at least 30 passes per 90 minutes in the lone forward role, Soldado manages just 24 and Defoe is making only 19 passes per match. And despite the long-held belief that selfishness is a virtue in strikers, this appears to correlate with their goalscoring contribution too. Is that the fault of a lack of incisive and imaginative movement or is it poor service? That's a judgement call. Either way, the fact that no Spurs player has managed more than one accurate through-ball all season is damning. Jack Wilshere has made four, David Silva five. Albeit a negative statistic in itself, the fact that Tottenham have been adjudged offside on fewer occasions than any other side also suggests the runs are either being missed or not being made. Premier League striker comparison Player - Goals (exc pens) per 90 - Passes per 90 Romelu Lukaku - 1.21 - 35 Sergio Aguero - 1.07 - 29 Daniel Sturridge - 0.89 - 28 Olivier Giroud - 0.58 - 30 Roberto Soldado - 0.13 - 24 Jermain Defoe - 0.00 - 19 Continued............
