...in some of our supporters. I have lost so much respect for this ‘rebel’ section of our so-called fan base over the past few months. On Saturday I witnessed first hand a so-called fan verbally attack another for refusing to boo his team. Now call me a happy-clapper if you like - call me whatever - but isn’t that appalling? I’m afraid I am losing patience and it is nothing to do with what I witness on the pitch. Instead it is the moronic attitude of people who are supposed to be aligned in their love of our club. Now they may say that they want what is best for the club too, but how on earth is booing the manager, booing substitutions, abusing players on twitter and on the pitch, and abusing fellow fans who don’t boo, going to help our club? I read a very pertinent tweet on Sunday: “Based on yesterday #ncfc fans should feel much more optimistic than the side who got battered for 90 minutes and sit only a point higher.” How very true. In fact we sit 3 points, that’s THREE POINTS, off 9th position after just 9 games. To put that into perspective, we are 4 points above the position immediately below us! Yet I also read numerous tweets along the lines of “Malky proved he is the better manager today - act NOW McNally”. Forgive me if I’m wrong, but didn’t Cardiff come for an ultra-defensive goalless draw? Isn’t that the exact reason these same people want the current incumbant removed? No matter how you look at it, that is completely devoid of sanity. One of the ‘wanted’ replacements plays the same way as Hughton did on occasions last season. There are concerns and I’d be stupid to dismiss them. We are going to have to start winning games soon. But what more could we have done on Saturday and how on earth is it the fault of the manager if his side fail to take one of the numerous good opportunities? I’ve heard people say that we had no clear cut chances! I think you’ll find we did - and we missed the lot of them because the composure wasn’t there or the keeper (who ALSO stupidly got booed by folk with less brain cells than they have fingers) had a stormer. Players are panicking. This is down to a lack of confidence in front of goal and it wouldn’t surprise me if some of that confidence has drained out of them due to the poisoness atmosphere. Certainly a few of the players fought back on Twitter that evening and quite right too - good to see them standing up for both the manager and themselves. Every single player is playing for the manager - it is blatant that this is the case - nobody can call it any other way. We played very well in the first half - some of the football was excellent, we looked a very good side. The goal was ‘just a matter of time’ and had it come I expect the floodgates would have opened. But it didn’t happen and as the impatience grew in the stands, the game became more stodgy and players began to feel the pressure. As a side we still have a few little problems but we do have one major problem - scoring goals. We aren’t alone in this problem. Even Spurs, who are battling for the Champions League, maybe even the title, are unable to score goals. These are issues that get solved over time and unlike last season, we have the personnel on our books to change it. Let’s ask some questions. Would I have lined up the same way as the manager did? Yes. Would I have wanted to keep things the same while the game progressed in the manner it did, because we were all over them? Probably. Would I have kept Hooper on? Maybe (unless he was injured) - but it wasn’t an obvious call to leave him on. Would I have brought Elmander on instead of RvW? Definitely. We needed to become more direct as our opponents had 11 men behind the ball for the whole second half. Did Cardiff defend well? Yeah (not that they got any credit for it). Should we have won? Definitely. Would 4-0 have flattered us? No. Now with hindsight I’d probably have kept Hooper on alongside Elmander and taken Tettey off, but we were so dominant and creating so many chances that I understand why he tried to mix it up. It wasn’t an error by the manager - just a different way of dealing with the problem at hand, ie breaking down a stubborn and resolute defence. But just because I’d have tweaked the system slightly differently to the manager is no reason to boo! When I left the ground I overheard a few people saying they’d ‘had enough’. I groaned but then it unfolded they’d had enough, not of the manager, but with the fans!! Plenty feel the same as I do having spoken to others. We played well. We got unlucky. That’s football. It’s not life or death. Sometimes we’ll play ten times worse and win. The Premier League is bloody tough! I think on the evidence so far this season, we’ve made big strides both in terms of the quality of our play and the calibre of players at the managers disposal. The fact we lie in the relegation zone is not a sign that we’ve ‘flopped’ or the manager is doing badly - it is because others have also improved, some more than us, while we have falied to convert our many chances and haven’t had the rub of the green. I’m going to both our games in Manchester this week but I’m not sure I wish to return to Carrow Road after what I witnessed on Saturday. How sad is that?! My fellow fans forcing me to ponder whether I should continue to go or not. You’re supposed to be a ‘supporter’. Time for some to start taking that word more literally. You’re doing my head in but far more importantly, you’re damaging the clubs chances. Just a quick word about the ‘goal that never was’. The ref cocked up 100%. The goal should have stood. Would I have felt comfortable winning a game of football in that manner? NO WAY! Would I have accepted the result had we won? Damn right I would! How is it any worse ‘bad sportsmanship’ than a player diving to win a match-defining penalty in the final minute of a game? It’s no different - it would cause controversy but the result would still stand! If we’d lost to that goal we’d have been absolutely livid, but the result would have stood and we’d have been unable to do anything about it. The ref waved play on (he doesn’t need to blow his whistle!), Fer took advantage of the situation, probably frustrated with Cardiff’s perpetual time wasting (Tettey was already on his feet when Marshall chucked the ball into touch) and our own inability to finish off a team who we smashed in every aspect other than the final score line. Personally, I’d rather it never happened and we could argue that the game would have been thrown into disrepute had the goal stood, but the game is thrown into disrepute every week and the referee has to abide by the laws of the game. He didn’t, and I fully expect to see him demoted as a result. It is certainly true that we as a nation are the only place where this ‘fair play’ really matters. I like that, and don’t particularly want to see it removed from the game so ultimately, even though the ref got it wrong, the final outcome was probably best for all parties. OTBC IHWT
I definitely didn't read all of that, but if Norwich went away and performed like Cardiff did only having two chances and getting bombarded the fans would be absolutely furious. I don't think this is large number of fans, just a few who have very loud voices. Ultimately we are not in a good position as we could be and the Hull, Villa, Chelsea and Cardiff games could have and in my opinion should have yielded better results. The manager has to take some responsibility for the results although the performances have been better than the results suggest and Hughton has accepted that. I think the time to really worry has not happened yet and we will have a better idea of our situation by Christmas, if we are in dire straits then I will be worried, but not yet. Hopefully we will (and I honestly believe) we will be in a better position by Christmas and all the Snoddy/Hughton haters will crawl back in to the woodwork. OTBC, COYY Chris Hughton's Yellow Army.
Not much to argue over Supers, although I was totally mystified at the Hooper substitution at the time (verified on the match day thread). Now I understand CH may have been a little hesitant to change to 2 up front, but Cardiff were not (and never will be) Arsenal, and I think throwing caution to the wind, especially at home and based on what had been happening all game, was well in order on Saturday. Not that, that was reason to boo the manager, although I can see why a number of people would have been frustrated, and even some going nuts about it. You could be ultra critical and say it was a managerial error, and that would be harsh imo, but again I can see why some would see it that way and would not question it too much, because of what I said above. The only difference is that I am 'hold back' a little, more often than not.
welcome russ i agree it is still a minority - it seems to be the snakepit who are the ones who have lost their marbles. i think christmas should always be a time for reflection and although i'd (obviously) hoped for a better start to the season, i'm still hugely encouraged by the way the team set about their opponents on saturday. i never had a problem with the stifling approach last season - i always said that it was a stage we had to go through if we wanted to become more enterprising - and i think we are still in between those two at the moment. in my opinion we are missing one player in the 'number 10' mould to really get us going. it may prove that we are unable to secure that player this season - if so, we have to keep plugging away. i thought most people understood why the club spent big in the summer but now i'm not so sure - they seem to think that spending big means we have a right to be in the top half. that is incredibly naive. as we know, the board are hoping for top 10 (as we all are) - that is the target and its certainly more than possible, but the fact the club budgeted for 16th says that they are aware that we could still be struggling. i still think we'll be fine - we look a much better side than at least 5 other teams but ultimately we do need to start making the most of our chances.
yep, as i said in my opening post, it was a debatable one. to boo it is mindless, absolutely mindless! with the benfit of hindsight i too would have switched to two up top but it was 50/50 really. at the time i felt it was the right move as we were so on top. hooper was looking a bit leggy (i thought he had a good game though and was very unlucky not to score at least once) but elmander was a real handful when he came on and in the final few minutes i really felt the goal would come. sadly, it didn't.
i am also fed up with those who continually move the goal posts. first of all, hughton has to go because we are boring to watch. apparently, these people would rather play attractive football but lose than watch that dross! suddenly, we look a more threatening side, playing some lovely football and creating chances. oh, but we aren't getting the results so hughton has to go. #agenda
Super, old boy You´re like an old wind-up toy, Get you started and you never will stop, But each and every word Above´s, the best I have heard Out of all of the recent day´s crop. OTBC
Just to back you up Supers, this is Graham Polls take on the "goal" http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...Mike-Jones-excuse-Leroy-Fer-goal-cop-out.html
I think Hughton was right to take Hooper off personally, as the striker in a game where you have 30 shots and don't score you could have done better. Hughton just had to try something, anything different to get that goal and my only criticism is that he didn't bring on the strongman Elmander sooner who could bully the Cardiff defenders more. I think Van Wolfswinkel came on to try and recover his injury, but although I was very sceptical about Elmander at first I now think he was a great signing and I hope we get him permanently such a hard worker. I would like to see more of Elmander but when you have spent so much on Hooper and Wolf who could be so prolific who do you not play, such a dilemma, glad I'm not the manager. I think there is a case for playing 4-4-2 late on in games where we have the upper hand and the midfield is playing well, but people don't need to bang on about it so much. I absolutely trust Hughton will take us forward from here on. I don't take people seriously who say he is 'tactically inept', if anything needs to be questioned its his ability to motivate players, not his tactical sense. That's the only thing I think the dreaded PL had over CH and unless we can get Klopp from BVB or Ancelotti from RM then I think we should stick with CH. OTBC
could it be that the premier league is too big, too difficult for some of our fans? let's face it - we've had one suggest they'd prefer to get relegated!
Interesting that people think Elmander did ok, I can understand the substitution, but this fella's level of control seems very poor, there were multiple opportunities for him to hold the ball up and lay it off precisely, which never happened. He just seems clumsy and off the pace - he gets into good positions, pulls defenders out of the way and then doesn't quite deliver, he's bloody frustrating
i can remember him having one poor touch (it was awful actually) but other than that, he drew the two centre halves out of position a few times and created space in the box so he was doing something right! that's why, with hindsight, i'd have kept hooper alongside him as he might have been a bit sharper to see the space created but fer had two good opportunities from elmander's clever play. his style looks a bit warrior-esque - maybe that makes him look more clumsy than he actually is?
Well done Supers, and I did read every word. I can understand some people booing if the team plays badly (personally, I can never see booing my team), but they didn't play badly. 31 shots, 9 on target is not a bad performance - just an unlucky one against a packed defence. I watched the Spurs match and some of their supporters were booing as they struggled to break down Hull's packed defence with 14 shots, 6 on target. They were fortunate to get the late penalty and win the game. As for the substitutions, CH explained afterwards that Hooper is not match fit. If he had played on and pulled a hamstring, out injured for weeks, how would people feel then? Elmander is the only fully match-fit striker City have at the moment. As his foot heals, RvW will have to be played back in gradually for a few games. The booing is not just a kind of sickness, it's based on ignorance of the whole situation. CH's explanation is here: http://www.clubcall.com/norwich-cit...lid-on-van-wolfswinkel-decision-1655922.html?
You're responsible for me having to sit through that dross yesterday. I want those pints back that I gave you last week!
Very good post Supers, it needed to be said. All we need is a little bit of luck and that result could have been 4, 5 anything. And that against a side whio have beaten some top teams. They are no mugs.
Excellent post, I agree with every word 100% I thought the first half on saturday was as good as I've seen us play since we've been back in the big time - yes, even when Lambert was our manager - and how on earth we weren't out of sight by the interval remains beyond me. The movement was fantastic and some of the interplay was superb, we absolutely battered them and looked a class above. Malky was obviously well aware of this and that's why he decided to shut up shop for the second half, get men behind the ball, run down the clock and make things difficult for us - which they did effectively, and it was an entirely different game for the second 45. If I was to be a bit critical of us as the game drew on it wouldn't necessarily be regarding the substitutions, it would more the fact that after deciding to keep one up front we didn't then push Howson and Fer further up to support, in fact before being subbed Johnny was playing most of the latter part of the game in our half which was a little frustrating as by then Cardiff weren't offering very much at all in way of attacking football. But for people to boo at the final whistle - or even at the subsitution - and to then phone Canary Call saying that Hootun has to be sacked based on that performance simply beggars belief and I'd be surprised if these people have actually developed thumbs yet. Ignorance in it's extreme, absolutely ****ing mindless and anyone with even half a brain can see that Hootun cannot be blamed for that on Saturday at all and in fact did pretty much everything spot on - all he didn't do was walk the ball into the net for them which I'm sure if he was allowed to he would have done. There is going to be trouble on the terraces before long if this ignorant mindset continues and manifests, I had a few cross words with an idiot at the final whistle who booed (basically I told to "shut up you ****ing idiot") and I'd be amazed if people don't start coming to blows at some point.
