OT - Über's Open Debate Thread

Oh dear!!

 

As i understand it wasn't Zulu a film? ... why was it made is a better question to me?

 

Now you're just being frivolous. Read my post #204 and you'll see the nature of Zulu's inaccuracies. You'll also no doubt note that Zulu came up 'cos I admitted that British film is not immune from distorting the facts. So it's nothing to do with accounts of British victories versus accounts of British defeats, if that's where you're going with this. If you wish, I'd happily dig out a few of the more outrageous Braveheart falsehoods for you (so you don't have to), but a major one is that Wallace fathered the future king.

 

Swords, you can't be a movie fan or you would have understood Uber's excellent Travis reference ages ago.......

I think Henry Hook VC was portrayed in Zulu as a cheeky malingering cockney, whereas in fact he was a career soldier from Gloucestershire. Zulu is probably closer to fact than most, but of course you only get one perspective which is understandable. Of course it primarily entertainment, and should be taken as such.

Uber, you'll be pleased to learn that Harry Flashman has a role to play in the Zulu Wars, in one of the final books....

 

Please explain for the benefit of the slower of wit.

 

Really? You don't think they're both Hollywood spoofs?

How were Falkirk and Stirling Bridge portrayed any more fanciful than Rorke's Drift?

What with the carefully crafted "goodies and baddies" storyline invented for the doltish masses that cram the picture houses looking for blood and guts and good guys and bad guys. For the love of God, open your eyes man and recognize your tribal prejudices.

 

Well to me the film Zulu showed a great British historic battle with the stars being English ... no one seemed to care for the loved ones in misery over Zulu number 307 who got shot in the balls. What i am saying there wasn't any coverage or a shot back to the village/comrades showing distress ... example:

Bongani has been shot Bongani has been shot Bongani has been shot Bongani has been shot ... if only we had guns

 

It's not that often that I genuinely laugh out when reading stuff on here, but that hit the spot. Love the comment about Zulu #307, Dave.

Perhaps they should do Titantic 2, where anxious penguins await news of the iceberg...

 

I think it pretty explicitly set out to tell the story from one perspective only because its better entertainment that way (at least for the British market). Just like the portrayals of the Germans in The Battle of Britain film were virtually confined to them being buffoons. Don't look for objectivity or balance in these things mate.

 

I don't fine Sir ... I am of the opinion that we are only taking references from a film ... looking forward to the sequel made by the Zulu Film Council

 

Well that's quite obvious but it was hardly central to the theme of the film was it?

Uber, you might forgive me for mistrusting your impartiality when it comes to movies concerning British interests/legacy after you jumped on "Argo" over one silly sentence. It strikes me that your nationalism might cloud your film critique a small bit. (COL's goes without question).

Braveheart was a Hollywood movie, nothing more, nothing less. Designed for the masses and devoured by the masses - not least, by innocent Yanks. Another dreadfully biased picture was Ken Loach's "The wind that shakes the Barley", not to mention an awful film. But you simply can't have it both ways concerning these things. No doubt the average Sweaty considers Braveheart more accurate than Zulu and he'd be influenced by his "National narrative". You're allowing your place of origin to contaminate your critical faculties.

I actually expected more from you to be honest.

(COL's a different story. That bloke eats flags for lunch)

 

I can see it now: 'Zulu II - The Search For Bongani's Hairy Funbags'

I'd pay to see it.

 

This this this and more of this please waitress

 

Films are great aren't they?

We are lucky enough to spend our money on seeing them is where i am at on all this.

Looking forward to the real life drama of the breeze expected tomorrow that script writes itself

 

What rot, Travis. I see you're getting in your stride, though. Let's have ago at this anyway...

To reduce your criticism of my thoughts on Argo to jumping on it over one silly sentence is a little uncharitable. Read back and you'll see that I acknowledged the inaccuracy to be rather unimportant in the grand scheme, but imagined it to be upsetting to those that actually risked their lives to help the Americans. Stan spoke of the untrue and exaggerated tension at the end of the film, so I didn't have to. I mentioned that New Zealand also were quoted as also not having given assistance to the Americans at the time; perhaps somebody could tell me whether they were equally airbrushed out in favour of a good story?

Why would there be no doubt that the average Scot would consider Braveheart more accurate than Zulu? Presumably for there to be no doubt about this you believe the 'average Sweaty' to be ignorant and gullible. Most Scots of my acquaintance are rather educated, quizzical and engaging people. They of course love the nationalism of Braveheart but equally recognise the historical tripe that it is. My fear is that the really ignorant will take the film as a statement of historical fact; those in America in particular.

I know of a guy that emigrated to the US but returned swiftly after his daughter came home from school telling him that she learned about WW2 that day. When he asked what she now knew, she replied that it had started in 1941 after the Japanese bombed Pearl Harbor. That's what we're up against.

I have no issue with my nationalistic pride, but can temper it with an inquiring mind that wants to understand the truth. I know that the British were effectively an invading force in South Africa, but can also rejoice in the fact that 11 VCs were awarded for outstanding acts of valour carried out by ordinary men. That is no problem for me.

It is no problem for me if the English are depicted being defeated, committing atrocities or whatever in Braveheart, provided that it is true. It's the complete and utter baloney stuff that gets my goat (such as the aforementioned Wallace fathering the future king bit).

How did you expect more from me? Wasn't it you that already has me (inaccurately) down as some sort of middle-class Tory Boy?

 

Now I KNOW you're taking the piss!

 

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that you're not looking forward to the deaths, injuries and misery that will presumably follow.

 

That is true!

 

My only surprise is that this thread has made it to page 12 before you've made a serious attempt to hijack it with this personal bollocks.

Well done.............yet again!! What a twat you are.

 

No I'm the Tory boy according to Travis (hope you don't mind me appropriating this now I think I've worked out the reference - oustandingly apt) mate. Always good for a wry smile.

This bloke isn't everybody's cup of tea, but this is the last word on Braveheart.

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