The only valid argument against these things, as far as I can see, is being able to tell the difference between a football flare and a real one. Considering a football flare is £1.70 and maritime flares are over a tenner each(and you'd have to be a complete moron to set off the latter in a football stadium), I'm not sure it's that much of an issue. Regardless of the merits, or otherwise, a three year ban for setting off a football flare is a disproportionate penalty.
We are now in the season of Guy Fawkes and fireworks , now although I enjoy a good, well organised display, I am against the open retail of fireworks. My reason is that now, just like in my day, fireworks end up in the hands of morons; they also end up with immature, but fun loving and adventurous children. Morons and children alike, but in their own way, will stretch the bounds of recommended safety advice, the inevitable outcome is increased risk, the ultimate consequence for some, is injury, often serious. If you doubt this then do a round of the hospitals to garner the facts. One thing is for sure and that is the scale and severity of the injuries would be much worse if it were not for the work of Customs and Trading Stadards Officers. The amount of illegally imported, unsafe fireworks that they intercept is chilling; what is worse is that some get through to the kids. We live in a market economy that will respond to these fireworks being made legitimate in football stadia; history would lead us to expect a big marketing campaign, a confusing selection competing for business, a reduction in price, the need to put a legal limit on the size/power of each one, illegal/dangerous product (just like the Guy Fawkes fireworks) being sold - probably in venues, pre-match, were the morons and simply daft will be getting bevvied up. Now, using the power of this simple commercial logic (happy to be taken to task on this by someone with good commercial experience - especially far-east expertise, where much of the illegal stuff comes from) I will repeat my earlier questions, because if my commercial logic is correct (challenge it if you think it isn't) and these questions need answers from the Pro-flares corner, or you think my logic is wrong, in which case I will either accept your argument or challenge it: 1. How many should be allowed into the stadium? If limited, then how are you going to police that and will you pay for the extra staff needed? 2. Will you be happy with the added time it takes to get into the ground for the searches and confiscation of unsafe pyrotechnics to take place? 3. If they are as good as is claimed (I accept they do help create atmosphere) and the numbers increase significantly and are ignited throughout the game, just how much wasted time will you accept in your match day? 4. Will you be cool with the opposition fans using them as a disruptive tactic when we have built momentum? Of course, we can do the same. 5. How would you feel about these hindering the cause of standing areas? 6. Smoke bombs cause disorientation; if hooliganism returns (it's never too far away) these bombs and flares are designed to cause chaos - the old, the young and the infirm will be the ones at risk; will you be happy with that? 7. There is the possibility that flares and bombs may attract more paying spectators to the match day; then again, it just might drive many supporters away.
Its a sad state of affairs when people feel we need flares to 'create an atmosphere', you could hand every person a flare on the way in and the atmosphere still wouldn't come close to those videos earlier in the thread.
Couldn't agree more. It's not the flares that cause the atmosphere, it's the passion, dedication and co-ordination demonstrated by the fans.
Let me help you: 1. How many should be allowed into the stadium? If limited, then how are you going to police that and will you pay for the extra staff needed? The minimum would be one each, so planning for the minimum allowed we would have to allow for 25,000 (ish) - have you ever seen how much some folk spend on fireworks; especially cheap ones. 2. Will you be happy with the added time it takes to get into the ground for the searches and confiscation of unsafe pyrotechnics to take place? How else would you enforce size and type limits, protecting the public and your insurance premium at the same timem 3. If they are as good as is claimed (I accept they do help create atmosphere) and the numbers increase significantly and are ignited throughout the game, just how much wasted time will you accept in your match day? It isn't too hard to find reports of games being delayed, so besides the inconvenience to the fans with timetables, there is the extra cost of the stadia staff and police. 4. Will you be cool with the opposition fans using them as a disruptive tactic when we have built momentum? Of course, we can do the same. A true trigger for hooliganism, mass use of smoke, confusion and fear, pandemonium with probable injuries resulting. Do you really think this improbable? 5. How would you feel about these hindering the cause of standing areas? Can't help but think it would be one or the other. 6. Smoke bombs cause disorientation; if hooliganism returns (it's never too far away) these bombs and flares are designed to cause chaos - the old, the young and the infirm will be the ones at risk; will you be happy with that? Triggered by #4 7. There is the possibility that flares and bombs may attract more paying spectators to the match day; then again, it just might drive many supporters away. How long could a family ethos survive and the less mobile feel secure; how many can afford the time to arrive earlier and not be sure of a final whistle time. Not exhaustive, but a bit of a starter.
I think that if the North Stand was made safe standing and you could get the singers from the East Stand to move there, then it would make far more difference to the atmosphere than a few flares, but I'd allow them in there too(if it wasn't illegal, obviously).
Exactly, look at Borussia Dortmund who let off loads of yellow flares along with creating that moving character. It gets everyone involved. Take a look at these, you'll notice flares are used massively to build atmosphere. [video=youtube;oKY0yFnAOzc]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oKY0yFnAOzc[/video]
Okay, that tube shows the ups and the down for me. There is no way that some of those flares were cool, in any sense of the word; for me, to open the doors for them is irresponsible. But there were many parts of that video that were simply awesome. I am a big advocate of a standing singing area - I personally believe both goal-end stands should be used. The Zulu-esque dancing was immense, combine that with quality songs/chants and we are getting somewhere. Creating the seated art displays and mobiles is well worth investigating, this could pull- in colleges for ideas. Done properly I very much doubt there would be a problem with sponsorship. Then we come to the smoke and flares again. I thought the pitch edge smoke, coupled with the art was viable. I think safe football flare carriers in the crowd, all choreographed with the other stuff, has potential. I am against making the flares legal for the general public, but I agree that imagination and a bit of give would be worth investigating; there is a middle ground that will achieve something far better than we have now.
It's pretty simple with regards to smoke bombs. Even if the stuff they emit was totally safe the size of the canisters makes them a potential missile.We all go to games where if you bring a bottle into the stadium the lid gets conviscated to make it less dangerous to throw. I've not got a scooby how safe they are, to be honest, but flares certainly strike me as a problem and clubs wouldn't want to allow them even if they were illegal, they're a lawsuit waiting to happen. Want an atmosphere, then start singing. The most impressive thing about European nights is all the noise the opposition fans make, all game every game.
Making football affordable to the masses would be the best option, while it is now becoming an elitist event where only the better off can afford to attend
So are most things if you are exposed to them over a sustained period. Check your E Numbers. E252 we're all eating it.
