Anyone see Sir Les on MOTD2 talking about holding midfielders that play like a third centre back? Quote SL 'It does my head in'. My thoughts exactly.
We shouldnt even be playing one, you need one like that when you are expecting to be out played, we should be dominating teams with our midfield. Fair enough in the PL but never in the champ, especially one whos been relegated twice in 2 seasons which would suggest hes not very good at protecting anything.
Don't agree as that position IMO is still the hardest to play If a holding midfielder plays too deep yes there can be problems but a good one should be able to control the game ... Spurs lad looked brilliant this weekend IMO It's a pressure position and would like to know from anyone at Millwall game who saw Henry ... Won't believe that he was at fault for our goals ?
From what I saw, Dave, the only point at which you might attribute a modicum of blame to Henry for the two goals was on the second, where both he a Hill went for the same aerial ball and both lost out to the Millwall chappie. Basically, they got in each other's way, but I'd probably say it was Hill that shouldn't have been there, not Henry. There was then Barton and Dunne getting in each other's way for Easter to score.
You're missing the point. Holding midfielders are one thing, auxiliary centre-backs are something else.
I was agreeing with DT.......not missing the point. I agree that the holding midfielder/s must get the positioning right. That's the most important part of their game. If they drop too deep it defeats the object.
Fair enough. That's my criticism of Henry's inclusion - he just stands in front of the back four and offers nothing going forwards.
You're completely entitled to that view and as I've only been to a couple of games this season, you are probably in a better position to judge. I would just say that very few holding midfielders offer anything going forward, as that really isn't their job. I certainly don't agree with flyer that we don't need one at all. To play such an attacking midfield would be suicidal imo.
By 'going forward' I'm not necessarily talking about getting into the opposition penalty area, but being comfortable on the ball and able to set up attacks. HR said the other week that he wanted to have five passing midfielders - or was that just McLaren's influence?
Could be. I'd be more than happy for Faurlin to play instead of Henry.......but then I'm not privy to watching him in training every day. If Ale is the tackling, ball playing player that he was before his injury, then he'd be first choice holding midfielder for me.
My admiration for Henry is that he reads the game very well in that position and I still stand that its all about positioning and reading the game ... These sort of players must sit when they must and read the game When and if these controls are relaxed you tend to see a very open game and at this level ... the highest level... you get punished very quickly. Looking ta the goal agree with Staines that Hill was maybe to blame ... My point would be here that Henry was already onto the danger even that late into the game ... there's the discipline I guess Say again watch Henry sometimes... not the ball. Football is not just played with the ball ... its more to do with the mouth and timing IMO It's easy to say he does nothing but any team at this level who gets in behind will hurt you
I think everyone is agreeing. Henry may have 66% of a good holding midfielders skill set - tackling and positioning ( I would need to see him live a few times more to be convinced of this), but he doesn't have the other bit - quick, incisive and sometimes (not always) imaginative distribution. But let's be realistic, we are a championship side trying to live within a sensible budget, we aren't going to sign Xavi Alonso.
"Offers nothing going forwards" is one of those hackneyed nuggets of faux-insight that gets overused on football forums. It's a sweeping dismissal of a player that usually operates without consideration for what they actually do in a game. From what I've seen of Henry this season, I've been pleasantly surprised with his attacking influence; he's got a good sweeping crossfield pass to a winger, threads quite a few balls through melees to an awaiting player on the edge of the penalty area, and actually makes the odd decent run forwards when he senses the side is starting to stagnate/overpass. The additional control he grants us over the midfield aids our attacking- even if it isn't him himself who's doing it. He "offers a lot going backwards" too
not only does he offer nothing going forwards but he breaks up our own attacks by taking so long on the ball. Barton and Faurlin offer enough defensively to allow us to play a LW, RW and an AM. they can also chip in with the odd goal or assist.
Im looking at the one you are looking at, he gets the ball and spends 2 seconds deciding what to do with it before giving it to someone 5 yards away from him. Look at that Arsenal move, Henry would have single handedly prevented that goal from happening if he was in the Arsenal team. Notice how we had the 33 and 41 passing moves and then Henry gets bought back in and id be very surprised if they show another one with him part of a team pining the ball around.
Arsenal doing no better than ok against Dortmund, big difference from Saturday - Flamini injured, their holding midfielder. Mind you Arteta is doing that job pretty well as a stand in....
They've just been suckered, you'll always get chances against Arsenal and the top teams will punish them...
Never rated Arteta. Flamini has been very influential in allowing the flair players to do their stuff this season. Some people just don't get it that you need someone like that to protect the defence and allow others to play. I actually think Arsenal were just starting to get right on top and Dortmund have caught them with a sucker-punch on the break..........1-2.
