SS - Swansea star Jonathan De Guzman keen to remain in south Wales How much would you be prepared to pay? I'd say £6m.
JDG is a real enigma isn't he? Absolutely useless one minute, giving the ball away and getting bundled off the ball (the entire first half yesterday) then coming up with cracking goals and assists. He's probably earned a contract with us and let's be honest we haven't got many dead ball specialists but I wouldn't go above £5M.
It's much easier to accept JDG for what he is (a technically gifted player who can't tackle) rather than continually wanting him to be something that he isn't.
6-8 m. He is playing for Netherlands now and is doing better and better in the PL, so we won't get him on the cheap and besides Villareal are doing great in La Liga (Top 5) at the moment, so maybe De Guzman isn't even available for us next season. But IMO the most likely scenario is that JDG and/or Michu are going to follow Michael Laudrup to his next managerial destination next summer. But as some of the posters don't really rate JDG, they will get over it I think, but personally I'll be very sad to see him go. JDG is a very strong attacking midfielder IMO.
The only surprise is the level of stick he keeps getting, all of our players have flaws, including JDG as said above its better to accept his good points and his bad points in the same way we do with the likes of chico,rangel,dyer,routs,vorm,etc etc there is no doubt that some players get the hate and some get nothing . Michu has been crap these last few games(by his standards) but nothing is said, like I spoke about months ago ,JDG was last seasons 2 nd highest goal scorer and was the highest in assists too, he plays for Holland too , maybe ,just maybe he is actually better than a lot of people think ?? Will be frustrating from time to time..just like every other player in our team, but lets not hang him while the rest get off scot free when playing ****
For me its his effort, or lack of in games, rather than mistakes he makes, like giving the ball away, missing a tackle. Its his off the ball effort that bugs the **** out of me, its a lazy strolling attitude, something you expect from a front man, not a central midfielder. Someone needs to give him a boot up the backside, and make him realise he needs to do as much off the ball, as he wants to do on the ball. The others do it, why is he special? For me, that is not a flaw, that is just laziness, and something I cannot forgive. Yes he has great moments, and poor moments Arsenal (tackle) > Sunderland (goal) perfect examples of that. But laziness is not something this Swansea team wants or needs. You mention Michu, yes by his standards he has been somewhat poor, but the fact he gives 100% effort makes it that much more forgiveable. Its also why last season, while many were giving Pablo ****, I didn't, why, cos although he was making mistakes, he put in a shift. He wanted the ball, he wanted to get back and help, it didn't always work out, but he never stopped trying, and thats what I want to see of our players. Its why I get frustrated with Dyer more than Routs, both have had bad games, but Dyer's effort when having a bad game, is unforgivable. But when he is having a good game, he puts in a shed load of effort. So for me, its not about what the player can do with the ball, its what he can do without it, and what effort he puts in to support the team. and JDG for me has got a long bloody way to go before he will turn the tide on my opinion of him. 2 fancy goals don't change that, I am happy for him of course, but he needs to do more. Look at Shelvey, gets less stick than JDG, why, because off the ball he puts in the effort, he puts in an effort more to get back (not always i might add, but more than JDG offers IMO) and for that he has a bit more of my respect, because he is a team player. A player who passes the ball, shoots and what not with the ball, but does very little without it, does not get my respect, as he is not a team player. Take yesterday with the pen, Michu had the ball, Bony wanted to take it, Michu gave him the ball. Can see Bony needs some confidence, with the lack of decent balls he has been getting of late. The COC final, Dyer on a hat-trick, game in the bag, a team player would have given it to Dyer, but JDG wanted the glory for himself. And that for me, is his whole problem at the moment, not enough of a team player.
In the COC final, I think the decision as to who was taking penalties had long been made and was reinforced from the bench. We don't get penalties, so after Sinclair left we didn't really know who our designated penalty taker was - I think it was JDG. Now it looks like Bony unless the exception was made yesterday - again coming from the bench - that Bony was to be given the shot. ML runs a tight ship and these sorts of decisions are made beforehand and cast in stone or if on the fly they come from the bench.
I can't believe penalty taking is cast in stone, any more than our free kick or corner taker is. We were 3-0 at the time of the penalty, Dyer had already scored 2, Bradford in the entire game had only got 3 shots on goal, there was only 30 minutes to play, Bradford with all respect hadn't offered much, so why not just give dyer the kick to get the hat-trick. Dyer's antics over it were poor, but for me JDG was selfish.
Strange how differently we are interpreting the situation. I think they BOTH were very selfish, as it wasn't prearranged who should take the penalty. Afterwards ML admitted it was his fault not having this sorted out in advance. JDG was the kicker at set pieces and the specialist, so naturally JDG found it natural that he should take the penalty. It was our first and only penalty this season, so no precedents had been created either. BTW I highly rate both players. But today maybe Bony is our new man for penalties.
He's out of contract in the summer isn't he? In that case a quick £2m deal in January should get the job done. Spot on.
I'm not condoning Dyers antics at all, he threw a tantrum like a child, but at the same time I can see where he is coming from, he usually does a lot of the leg work on the wing, and provides people the chance to score, (not always his strongest part lol) but how often does he get the chance to get himself a hat-trick, least of all in a final of the league cup. For me personally, I would have given it to Dyer, "go on lad, we are 3-0 up, you have a chance of a hat-trick, good luck" But JDG wanted the glory, and wanted to take the penalty himself, which I personally thought was not the actions of a player with a team ethic. You have a team mate on a hat-trick, why nto let him get it? What other reason is there not to let him have it? Other than to get some glory? If dyer was on 1 goal, or already on 3, then yeh, take the pen, but not when he is on two, and has a chance of the 3rd. That for me is as low as it can get.
JDG made himself and Dyer (who rightly wanted to take the penalty on a hat trick) look like a right bellend that day
I have always rated de Guzman's ability but totally despised his attitude to the graft that is required. Now, ability has to be respected because it is essential. The last thing you want at this level is a bunch of players who chase around like headless chickens but who don't have the talent to do anything with the ball when they get it. So it seems there has to be compromise. However, football is a physical, contact sport and, for me, unless you are a superbly talented, world class player (JdG is not) who can get by on skill alone, you have to have a certain degree of physicality about your game. This manifests itself in a player able to make a tackle or do his fair share of running by marking players or dangerous spaces. For the most part, JdG does neither of these things, which makes him a luxury in many games. As I've said countless times before, I regard him as a flat track bully. He plays well when we are on top, going forward, but disappears when we are being pressed. Yesterday was a classic example. In the first half when Sunderland were giving a good account of themselves, he was utter pants - along with quite a few others it must be said. Yet in the second half when we got hold of the game, he stepped up and made a huge contribution to our win. So what the hell do you do with a player like that? At times we might have been playing with ten men. At other times, he can be a game winner. So must Laudrup be reduced to picking and choosing the games JdG starts or even waiting for us to get on top before introducing the player? This can't be right. I'm not suggesting that JdG suddenly becomes an all action player involved in the action all over the pitch. If he could do that, in harness with his other talents, the top 6 clubs would all be clamouring for his services at a price far in excess of what is being rumoured. But he does need to knuckle down and do his fair share because, for every half game he has like yesterday's, he has far more where his unashamed laziness puts pressure on his team mates and costs us points. Let's face it, his current club didn't drop him for nothing and ship him out on loan - and this, remember, in a league that puts far more emphasis on skill than physical attributes. In summary, we are a lightweight team that needs more steel, more athleticism, more stamina and more strength. JdG offers none of this. He is worth signing nevertheless but only at the right price. Like Lone, I would go for a cheeky £2 million in January but, failing that, £4/5 million absolute tops.
Surely ML can see he doesn't pull his weight a lot of the time and needs to change his mindset as to muck in more with the grafting side if he can show us he's willing to get stuck in a couple of games then he would do himself a favour and may even enjoy it ! Otherwise he is a luxury that if used as a sub for when we are winning only after the other lads have done the hard part they will notice and resent him in time ? £3m tops at the moment.
Agree with almost everything that's been said about JDG here, particularly in relation to him disappearing when we're under the cosh. But as for not being a "team player" - sorry but you don't get the top number of assists in a season if you're not a team player.
I'd pay £5m for him. I'd give my reasons why, but everyone else seems to have gone over it in detail
Dyer was the selfish one in the coc final not JDG . Since when has Dyer been our set piece / penalty taker ? never ! the guy cant even strike the ball properly though he is improving. Its only certain peoples opinions that Jdg doesnt work hard enough, laudrup probably ways up the pro's and cons of every player and decides what selection is going to be based on who we play and what each player offers. creative players offer less protection,that is a fact, what people fail to see with JDG is that his good points outweigh his bad points. would you prefer a player who works his bollocks off but scores and assists nothing or a player who scores goals and assists but doesnt run round like a headless chicken and keeps his energy for the final 3rd ? The question to ask is does JDG win us points or does he lose us points ? The same thing was levelled at jason scotland,the same is being said of bony , our perception of players is different but the overall contribution cannot be faulted ,thats the big picture and that is why he is playing, what othercentre midfielder has his goal tally apart from michu ? Its about scoring goals and winning ga,es, as far as i can see JDG has won us alot more than he has lost us
