Not sure it's quite as black and white as that; normally in life there is a balance between 2 extremes
The issue for Gaston is fitness and its tainted his saints career so far. In games I've seen him in for Saints and Uruguay over the last year it's clear that he can't last 90 minutes at the tempo demanded. I wouldn't say their is a lack of effort on the pitch, but that missing core fitness could be down to a lack of physical effort in training. Even though he did not have much game time he was not helped by the confederations cup. Osvaldo I believe will help him as he is a player who has clearly benefitted from following Pochettino
I still think he will come good, and I don't think his attitude is really under question. He went to the confed cup like Yoshida who, despite appearing to be a model professional, hasn't played either. Ramirez put a real shift in in the cup games as well (with varied, but largely positive, results) so he's obviously trying to make an impression and he looks happy enough in training. Personally I think his defensive efforts have usually been good as well, though it's true he doesn't have the engine of Rodriguez or Davis for example. It only takes an injury or a drop in form for someone else though and Ramirez is back in the team, and it's hard to imagine that won't happen over the course of the season.
I think Osvaldo gave a hint as to why Ramirez hasn't done so well in the PL, so far, when he spoke about the physicality and pace of the PL. These are things that a fairly slight, more artistic footballer like Ramirez is not going to thrive on unless he gets in the gym and works on his strength. It's doable, but it's whether he wants to do it. Whatever PL team he'd go to he'd have to do the same, so he has to decide whether he wants to be in the PL or not. Saints can certainly do with his spark, that's for sure.
I really do come from a point of wanting him to succeed, despite the following. Rather than the general take on his attitude I mentioned earlier, here's something specific. Too often I've seen him lose the ball then just give up. Two that clearly spring to mind were against Bristol and also one last season (can't remember who we were playing) right in the corner of the pitch in front of the Northam end. In both cases mentioned, he'd done a run, the ball was taken off him and he just stopped and watched, despite the ball being no more than six or eight feet away. These are just examples I can recall. I also remember one of the away games on Sky, watching him do exactly the same thing. It's noticeable because the attitude of every other player in the team is immediately to try to win the ball back. Every time. So, I can see a source of problems with MP. I can also sense that it's an attitude problem rather than a skillset problem. I suspect he'll go. I wish not; I like to see people buckle down and change. Wherever he ended up, a bit of spine to get the ball back would help him. It doesn't matter how skilful you are if you have no drive. Hopefully someone might shake it into him and prevent him leaving but I'm not holding my breath. Vin
I keep thinking about the disallowed goal vs Arsenal last season. That was a bit of pure magic, and I think we all hoped it was a sign of things to come. I'm not ready to give up on him yet. As for the physicality of the PL, I'd hazard a guess that football in Uruguay gets pretty damn physical.
A couple of injuries and he might get back on the bench I would say. JWP and Davis and Guly are ahead of him from the looks of it. I was very excited about him coming, I wanted him to do well but I didn't buy the 'settling in' bit. If that was true then noone would bother. If we are on a sharp curve towards european qualification we don't have time for a 'full season of settling in'. I think he'll be sold in January if anyone will match what we bought him for and I can see us having a more aggressive go at getting someone else than we did in the summer if that is the case.
I think the main advantage of selling Ramirez is it gives Saints the money and reason for getting a big name AMC. Not so much because Ramirez is that bad or someone else is that good. The situation is awkward right now because Ramirez is the highest paid/highest reputation guy but he's not playing. And we need to improve at that position. It's fiscally more efficient and probably also less stressful on the team if it is Lallana or Rodriguez on the bench instead of Ramirez. If Ramirez isn't working out, then by all means sell him. Saints are no longer a small club, so players like Ramirez or better are within our reach. It's good for both sides. I also wouldn't be surprised if this whole thing blows over. But I don't see why the assumption has to be that Ramirez is lazy or unwilling to train. Sometimes it just doesn't work out between a player and a manager. Doesn't mean that either side is to blame. I don't mind agents hinting that the player wants out. It's unfortunate but it is part of the business nowadays. I think Ramirez's agent went too far in this case though, by saying he doesn't like Pochettino. Why not just say he enjoys Saints and has learned a lot there but if he is superfluous to requirements, he'd like to go someplace where he can get first team football? I think one thing is pretty certain is that Ramirez is not going to be able to pout himself off the team.
I really don't get this forum's fascination with Banega. We can get someone better than Banega, and we also don't have to do it in January.
We have had a habit of going back in for players. Sharp rejected us in the Summer and we got him in January. Rodriguez rejected us in January and we got him in the summer. Banega could have the same problem as Ramirez with settling in and adjusting, etc. and I think that if we are to get a CAM in, we need someone who's more of a box-to-box midfielder who works with the CMs as well as the attack, and I don't think Ramirez did the former. This new CAM will dislodge Lambert so they best be good!
The problem with Ramirez has always been that he gives the ball away far too cheaply. He doesn't seem willing to press and run for the team either. I thought his defensive contribution was decent under Adkins, so I'm not sure what's happened to him under Pochettino. Pochettino has shown he is determined to play Lambert and Osvaldo together. Osvaldo, Lambert and Lallana look like nailed on starters which leaves Ramirez fighting with Davis, Rodriguez and Ward-Prowse for a place in the starting lineup. Davis has proved great for the team balance. Rodriguez is a good option off the bench. We saw an assist from Davis and a goal from Rodriguez in the last game. Ward-Prowse is another player that looks to definitely be ahead of Ramirez in the pecking order. Guly's appearance in the last game looks like another blow for Ramirez. Guly works very hard when we lose the ball and he's good at helping the side retain possession. Due to all of this Ramirez obviously has a fight on his hands to get into the match day squad now. I can't see him really playing this season other than rare appearances from the bench unless there are injuries. If we are looking to buy an attacker in January, which I'm sure we are, then we should sell him.
Agree with #7. I was actually surprised at how hard he worked last season. Having seen the Bristol City cup game however, his heart really didn't look in it. At the start of the season I suggested that he'd be sold in January, I didn't have too many takers back then! Its still not too late for him but he has to want it.
Cant say that I´m comfortable with the thought of giving up on our most talented player and will never understand the obsession on these forums with "players must track back". Different players have different roles and attributes in their game. But I would also think we might go in for Banega again in january, a bit depending on where in the table we are though. A switch of Gaston + £3-4m for Banega and Viktor Fischer is a deal I can live with....
