This is simply not true. Against Liverpool Wanyama succeeded with 4/7 tackles and committed 2 fouls. Against Crystal Palace Wanyama succeeded with 3/5 tackles and committed 3 fouls. Against Swansea Wanyama succeeded with 6/8 tackles and committed 3 fouls. Schneiderlin also commits a lot of fouls, the fifth most of any player in the league last season. So this is perhaps not the best metric with which to make your point.
Just wanted to say as well rabbit spectrum, this isn't all aimed at you because I do agree with a lot of what your saying, but I have read so much negativity about Wanyama recently and it is really starting to grate.
This season wanyama 19 fouls (18 tackles) has commited more fouls than cork did last season 18 fouls, schneiderlin has commited 11 fouls this season with 1 more tackle a game commited. Its probably the starkest discrepancy you would want to see before questioning his ability to break up play effectively.
No problem I am glad to have a discussion as it is one of the more interesting things tactically atm. I note your stats and they are similar but cork made far less errors, fouls was dispossed less, etc.
The thing is, committing fouls is necessarily a bad thing. If it breaks up the play and let's your team shape up and get back in numbers then it is a good thing. As long as he is not reckless and picking up red cards, then I don't see why fouling is such a bad thing? Paul Scholes is one of the best midfielders of his generation, and he committed fouls in basically every game he played. A lot of people said our midfield needed more steel last season, and now we have it, look where we are in the league.
Yeah, it is quite noticeable as well. Players won't bother trying to take him on through the middle, often he'll move in position in front of them and they'll give up, turn around and play it back into defence.
But that wasn't what you said; you said "wanyama commits more fouls than tackles which is simply terrible and something that needs a tonne of work like pretty much everything else he does." which is untrue. It makes me think that, like most of the people around me at games, you are seeing what you want to see rather than what is really happening. I'm very aware of people's perception versus reality because I fear that VW is sliding into the coveted fan-hatred spot now that Guly and Fox are spending less time on the pitch. Vin
Whilst visibly mouthing "F*** that s***" The Wanyama v Cork foul count needs to have context of playing under Adkins or Poch as we're far more aggressive in the tackle under Mauricio as opposed to the fair play leading days of Adkins. Morgan has improved over the last few games and he put in another swashbuckling display. I'm pleased Pochettino is playing him further forward as I think he has plenty to offer and would be wasted as a sitting midfielder despite his passing range. I'd just like to see more confidence from him going forward and adjusting his mindset when on the ball.
This CM debate reminds me of when we bought Cork. People were saying about how he was going to partner Schneiderlin, when in fact he partnered Hammond. Although Cork and Schneiderlin were our best CMs, Hammond and Cork had the best partnership. This also allowed Schneiderlin to partner Chaplow in the cup and they also formed a good partnership. Eventually, Hammond lost his form and Cork and Schneiderlin became regulars towards the end of the 11/12 season. I'm not saying Cork should start, I'm just saying that sometimes partnerships take a while to click and althought Cork and Schneiderlin are our best pairing, Wanyama and Schneiderlin are our best players and the only way they'll form a decent partnership is by playing together. The more we play Cork, the less Morgan and Victor will play together and the longer it'll take to jel. Once Wanyama gains more composure, starts to complement Schneiderlin and starts doing the simple things instead of making things more complicated than they need to be, he'll be a top player.
Yes, also Wanyama plays a different role and drops back with Lovren and Fonte when the full backs go forward. Plus he is doing ok and I can't quite see why people think he isn't. And we are winning. To be fair he has copied and pasted your exact words.
Sorry, please tell me which bit of "wanyama commits more fouls than tackles which is simply terrible and something that needs a tonne of work like pretty much everything else he does" I misread. Vin
Someone said that Wanyama is impossible to tackle, well maybe. But why bother to tackle when you know he's going to give it away anyway. I watched him very closely against Swansea, his first 4 passes went astray. After that he settled down a bit but more often than not any attempt at a forward pass didn't reach its target. Ok so he was fine at 5 yard back and side passes. Its interesting that one of the Scottish managers said that when he was on the ball they'd just let him at it because he was hopeless coming forward and would inevitably run out of ideas. As for Cork, I really feel sorry for him (and I recognise that I am probably over-critical of Wanyama because of this). I really thought he could be pushing for an England place this year, especially with Saints doing well. I think he would be great fetching and carrying in the middle of an England midfield. But thats not going to happen now,
I agree with your point about partnerships but I don't necessarily think that Wanyama is the better player. Obviously, he and Cork are different and its hard to compare the two when they have a different role to play. The other problem is we have no idea how many points we'd have if Cork was playing instead of Wanyama. We may have more, we may have less. The fact is that we are obviously doing something right and despite my views on Cork, why would we want to change a winning formula? Regretfully, Cork is going to have to wait until we have a major reversal of form or until there is an injury or suspension.
I am not really sure what part of "wanyama commits more fouls than tackles which is simply terrible and something that needs a tonne of work like pretty much everything else he does," you find to be untrue but everything I have said has been consistent. I said "wanyama commits more fouls than tackles." I also said "This season wanyama 19 fouls (18 tackles) has commited more fouls than cork." The brackets tells you how many tackles he made which was less than the fouls he committed. I also mention cork, which I assume is what confused you, I mentioned him as he is potentially wanyama's incumbent. I would have thought it was a fairly simple sentence to read and I clearly haven't contradicted myself but I can see where you could get confused as well. To make things extra clear when I said i'm not sure you can read that was a response to your statement "but that's not what you said."
It may not be a question of who is the better player, Wanyama or Cork, but who suits our present style more. Wanyama has the advantage of getting the position because he was new and expensive, but he then had to be good enough to keep that role. So far, he hasn't done badly enough to warrant being replaced. Results suggest that he is doing his job. An injury to Wanyama (how do you injure a tank?) would give Cork a chance...a string of good performances and results and Wanyama would have to wait for his chance. That's football and you accept that if you are not a Prima Donna.
You're right. I'd looked at the stats for the last three games; you'd quoted the season, so I was wrong. It's worthwhile noting that he's clearly improving the ratio given the numbers over the past three games. I slso still worry that the crowd (certainly around me) is starting to see him as the one to be heckled. Vin
