a good point too. as i understand it you can get into some games in spain for next to nothing which supports the point of view that spain might not be as popular but i only know form guys who tell me they got in. only been to spain the once and it was off season. In the end player wages drives the whole show doesn't it? I googled this right, you can too. in 2012 the average prem wages was £35k In 2006 it was reportedly £13k in 2000 it was reportedly £7.8k think about that..... thats where the tv and the ticket price is going. So if everyone buggered off to some flash super league like we used to read about in shoot and roy of the rovers or whatever comic we read (anyone remember jon stark ) and took their wages there and we had LFC B out on weekends playing whomever and the ticket price was a £5 I am not sure if we would or would not fill a ground But i am sure that if we had LFC selling tv rights and playing in the prem then if we were playing palace the ground would still be full. and if it were palace away? well palace would do their best to sell us the game, we'd screw them over and they'd have to cut their cloth to measure.
The fact that supposedly illegal streaming is so popular has more to do with the avaricious pricing (bundling) policy employed by Sky in the UK than anything -else. The impact on attendances in the Premiership would be negligible should matches be screened at 3pm on a Saturday. There may however be an effect upon attendances in the lower leagues - though even that would have to be proved. It amazes me that in Australia, Fox will show Sat 3pm Premership matches live with a selection of Red Button matches (ie can be viewed live but not recorded) but that the associated company televising the games(s) is prevented from even showing 1 game! It also amuses me that via Skype I can share the match with him via him turning his laptop towards his TV screen!! The sooner the clubs are freed from the present contractual arrangements and allowed to negotiate their own communication packages the better!
MITO - in your desire to see a European super league, you've made one startling assumption - that you lot would be in it! As by my maths, if they took the top 4 sides from France, Spain, Germany, Italy & England to make a 20 team super league. You'd be watching from the side lines...... It'll never happen anyway imo, as there's simple no desire for it amongst the paying public.
Right, well what i was saying, and i'll just clarify it, is that not every game, just a critical mass of games, would be 3 pm saturday. I would expect that say sunday two slots would remain as premium slots and at least the early kick off on a Saturday too. But monday night? the evidence i see is nobody want to play those games and we used to get the lower games on then. anyway my point was that 3pm ought to have more games on then and people should get a choice of which game to watch then not delayed til 8pm. I thought it would be something good to see, If we for example play utd you want the 1pm slots saturday or sunday as they are class 1 for safety. If we play half the prem its 3pm saturday no problem. If its premium game its 4pm sunday. I ouwld be good with that and just be able to see my game and not stream it. I do totally agree that piracy and tv companies are two different issues but for me they are interlinked. You won't ever stop piracy totally but i just think that by splitting the rights and making both this expensive then you drive a lot more people towards the stream and the pirate site than you would if the match was cheaply and individually available. That's just my opinion anyway. I watch games on sky go.... better quality stream no problem... i use my device to watch on the go.. (phone) its good. but i can't get every game i want on it. heres the thing there, sky tried it on with sky go when it first game out. i downlaoded the app and they said i needed to pay £5 more for it. i deleted it and soon after they dropped the charge but now have "sky go extra" i get 2 devices for free then have to pay for more devices. If i was minded i could pay that and give someone my account. I am fine with my PC at home and my phone for watching. Its also cheaper than multiroom btw! I would have to get bt broadband in then to stream the other games, again thats a fad IMO and things will change once more then i'm stuck with Bt's intro package. The piracy thing is like this, its fox soccer, links for all over not really english people streaming so I am fairly confident that it'll take a huge effort to even scratch the level of piracy going on. The music industry had to change didn't it? singles make no money, album, tours and merchandise do. I think smart clubs will realize the exact same thing. I think the club that makes tickets cheaper and sells more stuff inside the stadium will make more money and the league that makes it possible for people to pick and choose will make more money over all. Perhaps the best way to marry the two views tobes would be to say the premier league should sell this type of system for all clubs to benefit from. if everyone goes in at once to the system and shares then the fans get more, and lets face it will probably pay as much to them as to sky. You don't need anything bar broadband to broadcast as well...... I think the company that can offer a subscription model that allows the individual pick the game they want to see is the company that will clean up and will also help cut out the piracy.. a bit.
It'll kill the EPL if that ever happens, for all the reasons already discussed. Plus the current EPL would never ratify it, as there'd be too many 'no' votes to carry it through under the current constitution, so you'd be looking at a totally new league before you'll see clubs negotiating their own TV deals. As for blaming Sky's pricing policy for piracy, that's nonsense. Sky could charge a couple of quid per game & you'd still get twats streaming it & plenty taking it for free.
What a very parochial point of view. Why should innovators be "squashed" when pirates like Sky rely upon Copyright legislation that, in legal circles at least, is considered as being not fit for purpose? Now don't go on about the pre-investment by companies like Sky. If they spent even a proportion of that income in beefing-up their security then the so called piracy would be reduced significantly. As for the PPV experience, you are so ill-informed. Just have a look at the US figures across a range of sports - football is no different! The reason that Sky has not promoted it in the the UK is the fact that they are making such excessive profit from their bundling policy.
I can and will blame Sky's pricing policy for creating the environment in which file sharing (with all of its limitations) becomes attractive. Sky are only perpetuating the failed copyright model used by the record and film distribution companies in not recognising the reality of technological development.
Innovators? What the **** are people streaming live feeds innovating? They're stealing, pure & simple. As the salient point you've missed when you've labelled Sky the pirates (laughable) is that they've PAID FOR THE PRODUCT & the EPL HAS WILLINGLY SOLD THEM IT. I'm not 'ill informed' about PPV at all you, as it was tried over here in the early days of the Sky platform & it failed to deliver an acceptable return. You can't use the American model as a comparator as they've got a population of 300 million you dolt.
ah you see you've assumed that i really desire to see one, I am merely speculating that its the next logical step for clubs to take once they get individual tv rights. (garvitate towards making most money) In short to your point about us not being in it. If you took the top 4 from france you'd not get much would you? PSG yes, monaco... meh... however that being said i would agree that that would be a fiarer way to go. What has been mooted is even a two tier league system so that the most clubs could be got into it and you could either do promote and relegate in that format OR you could run them in parallel with a play off system. However. I would expect that if you cherry pciekd the top say 20 clubs in europe you would be looking at the ajax's of this world too... that type of approach. I don't really know how they'd do it but when you want the most tv money in and there's no farienss to your thinking then i think you owuld see the top 6 out of england approached. that type of thing. srry but we are still a little bit popular globally tobes.
I take it you have a vested interest in this standpoint? i.e. that you engage in watching your football via illegal streams as opposed to paying for it, in one form or another? The copyright model isn't the issue, it's the scale & the range of the illegal streaming that's the issue. People would still take it for free even if it was a couple of quid & you know it, so your argument re: Sky's pricing is hollow.
The copyright model is an issue. It is the only barrier to a restraint of trade. How I watch the majority of my football is not the issue here. How do you watch yours?
Technology has advanced so much, Sky have been left behind. iTunes shows that if you charge a sensible price for something then enough people will just pay rather than the hassle of piracy and you can make loads of sales (for iTunes 25 billion songs in less than 10 years). From my very limited experience with Sky's attempts, it was all way too much hassle and compicated; they have 7 ways to watch and 8 apps, but you can't just pay to watch a game of football on your mobile if you aren't signed up for a contract to have a sky box in your house.
I assumed nothing, YOU said this; As for a 2 tier European league, I can't think of anything less appealing. The 2nd tier would be like watching an entire season of the Europa league ffs. As I said, I just don't think there's a desire for this product amongst the paying public.
Some would but I believe most would opt to pay instead if it was that cheap. You don't get people that are more of a cheapskate than me but I'd pay if it was as little as that because the quality of footage would be much better and you know you will be able to watch the entire game without the occasional freeze etc.
may i add two points before the row. 1. PPv before with sky cost i think £9.99 per game. It died cos nobody was willing to pay it. I think thats my view on it anyway. I could have seen it work at lower cost but sky had a monopoly nearly then and were too greedy, just like they nearly killed sky go with that £5 charge per month. 2. Bundling price is well known. If i took the full sky package (i actually pay from the goodness of my heart the full package for my parents) its cost be a fortune so I actually go without so my mother bless her can watch the tennis. I now know that when i LEAVE sky in my own house they will shovel deals at me so I not have sky sport 1 in my own house and pay there for other channels like disney etc etc... I get sky sports 1 for a fiver... a fiver. sky can sell that to me legally for that much per month so if i see (and I do) 5 games that £1 per game. Now not EVERYONE can go on that deal or sky go bust i accept that but they make massive profits and dave is right every other country sky sell to can watch all games live. this is why i am convinced that the 3pm Saturday slot should be a 6 game multistream where you pay a small fee to see the game you choose. Its just my opinion but it could work. If i say £1 to see a high quality match picture with the same commentary mind you that sky is giving to the foreign markets (no cost there) then I won't bother stream, see bad adds, have pop ups etc. I think that sets out my views on it. HMV are gone to the wall due to dvd streaming not due to piracy. sony and the other record companies fought like dogs to attack piracy too, they missed the point about music being content and frankly football is too. bootleg will occur but the smart companies use the content as an avenue to drive revneue not as revenue itself now. Get people in and sell them other rubbish basically. I'm sure football could pick and choose some lessons here.
True, but we are still seen as one of the bigger clubs around that attracts viewing figures. As you well know, its all about money and Liverpool have a massive fan base all around the world
Sky are using the exact same technology though, they haven't been left behind in that regard. The only reason you can't 'pick & choose' games on a non contract basis, is that if you were able to do so, the contract value of the EPL TV rights would be a fraction of what Sky paid for them. You can have cheaper live football, but your club will have a much smaller revenue stream, which would leave the EPL trailing behind the other top leagues in Europe in no time.
