Allegations against Red Bull gaining ‘traction’ Red Bull Vettel Korea 2013 C600 The rumors of illegal traction control, torque vectoring and other crafty KERS/transmission linking still move like a fog through the pit lane of Formula 1 this week in Japan. As the series gets set for the Japanese Grand Prix at Suzuka, Red Bull is still discounting accusations that they have created a traction control, of sorts, using KERS and the suspension of their car which is not controlled via the FIA regulated ECU. The story took flight when former F1 team owner Giancarlo Minardi posted his commentary on the matter on his website. Other publications have speculated on what they think may be at play in the Adrian Newey designed RB9 chassis. Racecar Engineering has a comprehensive outline of just how they believe Red Bull are using their KERS and suspension to create traction control allowing Sebastian Vettel to apply power 50m early than anyone else at the Singapore Grand Prix. Ironically, as time goes on you start to see allegations about Vettel’s performance in Singapore starting at 1.5 seconds advantage over the field but has now ballooned to 2.5 seconds according to Minardi’s website. Sort of like measuring the fish that got away. Last weeks Korean Grand Prix didn’t see that kind of domination and after the race, Red Bull boss Christian Horner praised Vettel for he win and for managing the pace…eyebrows raised. Vettel, who could potentially secure his 4th World Championship this weekend in Japan, has already been maligned with boos during the post-race podium celebration and detractors have long stated that he isn’t that good of a driver rather it is the car that is lending victories to the name of Vettel. A dodgy traction control system, if true, would only heap more invective on the young German and allegations of contravening the “spirit” of the KERS regulations within Formula 1’s technical and sporting laws. We’ve been down this “spirit” versus the “letter” of the law before in F1with flexible wings, floors, tire compounds, engine mapping and blown diffusers. The point is, regulations are there to constrain the series but the teams job is to gain every advantage they can within those regulations and even exploit the regulations if they can. That has always been the goal of F1 teams. If the RB9 is using an intriguing system that links KERS to the suspension movement for instant torque application or a form of traction control, is it cheating? Have Red Bull found a loophole in the regulations? Have they discovered a way of using torque vectoring that is beyond the FIA’s scrutiny? In 2009, Brawn GP, Williams F1 and Toyota all showed up for the first Grand Prix in Australia with Dual Diffuser Deck (DDD). It was innovative and beyond the FIA regulations set for that year. The FIA considered the matter and allowed the systems to remain that saw Brawn secure the world title. If Red Bull has a KERS/traction control system, is it an innovation such as the DDD? Or is it simply cheating? FIA technical regulation states: 9.3 Traction control: No car may be equipped with a system or device which is capable of preventing the driven wheels from spinning under power or of compensating for excessive throttle torque demand by the driver. Any device or system which notifies the driver of the onset of wheel spin is not permitted. Back in 2008, when traction control was banned, Formula 1’s website stated: “And traction control will be again be outlawed altogether from the start of the 2008 season, when the introduction of standardised ECUs to the cars will make policing the ban far easier than in the past.” It was clear at the time that the ECU’s were being deployed as standardized equipment in order to eliminate the possibility of traction control and if red Bull have devised a system that contravenes the ECU, one could consider this, as juxtaposed with Article 9.3, as being outside of the regulations.
yawn, are you goinbg to start a thread where you don't accuse Vettel of cheating? He isn't Lewis Hamilton you know. Vettels fastest lap was 1.4 seconds faster than Webbers, no where near the 2.5 seconds Minardi reckons, his fastest lap was just over 1 second faster than the Force India of Adrian Sutil, nowhere near 2.5 seconds, in fact not even the Caterhams were 2.5 seconds slow. Vettel set his on brand new tyres 15 laps from the end. he was 2.5 seconds faster than the field after the first SC because everyone else was stuck behind Rosberg, who had medium tyres on and held everyone back THAT is why he was lapping 2.5 seconds faster than everyone else at that point.
Love it, Fangio and Shumacher were always called cheaters! Seem to remember reading in Fangio's biography that the public in the 1950's considered Farina, Hawthorn and Ascari better drivers than him and it was only the car for the reason for his victories. At least Stirling Moss admitted that Fangio was the best around considering he went up against him. It's funny how the greatest names in F1 history (Fangio, Schumacher, Senna, Prost, Lauda) were all called cheaters back in the day against the likes of (Hawthorn, D.Hill, Mansell, Hunt.) <- Surprise surprise.... was just naming rivals and I didn't know it would turn out like that. Vettel could become the greatest "CHEATER" in the history of F1
It seems to me most likely that this story is borne on the frustration that Vettel's rivals and many fans of the sport feel at his seemingly untouchable domination and the predictability that follows. I am intrigued by it though for two main reasons: firstly, simply because I'd love to know exactly where his post-summer performance boost has come from; secondly, because of the rumours linking it to KERS, which Newey supposedly hated and wanted nothing to do with - oh, the would-be irony! Of course, it could just be that, as Silver suggests, dominant drivers tend to be accused of cheating but whatever it is, I hope the accusers can provide some concrete evidence soon or shut up because these stories can become very boring, very quickly; yes, Vettel's excellence has become utterly predictable but sniping about cheating becomes equally tedious.
The accusation comes from Italian former team owner Moinardi, and of course the Italians aren't at all partisan towards Vettels nearest rival
I'm getting seriously bored of this idea that Red Bull might be cheating, it's the default reaction from people who simply can't accept Vettel/Red Bull are the best combination at the moment in the sport and are doing a bloody good job.
Quite, and it's not as if people haven't had time to get used to the idea! Myself, I'd rather things were different but now I'm just hoping that next year's regs will upset the status quo.
I'm almost certain Red Bull aren't cheating, they are probably just pushing the rules to the limits. Since actual innovative engineering ideas are banned these days the next best thing is watching the best exploit the rules to the limit. Theres not, nor has there ever been any evidence of Red Bull doing any serious cheating with Mercedes being the closest to cheating this season, although I blame the FIA entirely for that and the fact that Mercedes weren't really punished showed that the FIA knew they had messed up. If (and its a big if) Red Bull were shown to have cheated then I'd expect them and their drivers to be disqualified, with some sort of future punishment as well, maybe a points deduction for next season (WCC). But at the end of the day Red Bull are at the top of their game, they've built a great car and wouldn't be stupid enough to try and get away with cheating in todays whistle blowing age.
All of which raises the question: just what have they done that is giving them this unassailable advantage?
I fear the boring answer is that the other teams have moved onto 2014 whilst Red Bull pushed a little more with their 2013 designs. At least thats what I hope so they may be behind next year and we may get a different winner
I wonder to what extent the tyre 'safety' changes have contributed: it seems unlikely to be mere coincidence that their performance jump has been so pronounced since the switch to Kevlar, although this may be one factor among several.
I think its a great question to ask (What if?) but it adds no further weight to the argument that they are and whilst I emphathise with some saying it is now getting boring there is generally no smoke without fire. It often comes to light 3 or 4 years after the event that there was something non compliant with a winning car which can/or may devalue the championships won. I hope for the sake of the sport that the car proves to be legal both now and in the future, but I have to say if it were deemed to be non compliant it would answer alot of questions.
Schumi was called a cheater because he cheated.... a number of times. Parking the car at Monaco Attempting to ram Hill Actually ramming hill Traction control on the Benetton etc.
TBH i'd love to believe there was a "trick" that they were utilising that could be stopped ie by the regs changing to enforce the exhausts to exit quite prominantly behind the car to prevent there coke bottle/ebd however I think there are a number of things most probably at work... Tighter packaging gear box/Kers dual packaging Coke bottle downforce Higher amount of rake Flexi wings off throttle mapping (possibly still in effect) kers activated traction control (unfounded, but I wouldn't put it past them) Change in the tyres allowing them to push harder (and therefor highlite there superior car) I'm sure there are other things but it seems RB are leading the way in terms of pushing the laws, and this is just a list of known or almost known items. I bet there are others, but the real strength is that there is not just one EBD/J-switch etc.
+ there's the perfectionism of Vettel, the only driver to visit the Pirelli factory to discover how they make their tyres, the same sort of dedication to perfection that both Senna and Schumacher displayed
Surely FIA wouldn't risk losing Red Bull in formula 1 even if it's for just a season..lol they would find some excuse.
