I have noticed how defensive utd have gotten under DM, the first thing i noticed from his first game on tour is how every single player gets back for corners and it lessens the opportunity for a counter attack, in theory when the ball is cleared from the corner towards the half way line, there is no pressure on the opposition because every united player is in the box and the opposition get a chance to build from the half way line without pressure or even punt the ball back in to the box, whereas in the days of SAF, at least one player was always on the halfway line, sometimes two. I have also noticed how he rarely ever makes any substututions, like last night you could see that Valencia and welbeck were exhausted probably due to the amount of tracking back that they did, and he should have made the changes a lot earlier as the equalizing goal came from Valencia's side, and he only made the substitution, replacing Welbeck in injury time. I was always against the signing of Fellaini, because i believed that if he came to the club , utd would turn in to a long ball team, playing off him and my fears were realized last night, with the numerous long balls to him. I think Fellaini is a good player, but for me he should be challenging Carrick for his position in defensive midfield because he has no creative abilities, he gives the ball away a lot and is not the best in possession, but he does win possession back as well of course committing a lot of fouls in the process and utd will suffer a lot from this in Europe this season so prepare to get frustrated from the amount of free kicks he gives away, because he might get away with them in the PL but not in Europe. I have been a fan of Kagawa from his days in Dortmund and was very pleased when he was signed, injuries and a lack of consistency in performance and selection disrupted his first season with the club, but what really frustrates me is that DM really does not seem to want to give him a chance because this whole season has been stop start for the strikers as Rooney and RVP have not played together in all the games, I recall the two liverpool games, the west brom game and the shaktar game, and these would have been great games to test out Kagawa in the no.10 position, instead he has continuosly played him out on the left where he is least effective, and some might claim that he plays there for Japan, but they play a totally different style to utd and he is the main fulcrum of the team where he and Honda are allowed to go anywhere they please. To understand how good this guy is, you have to realise that in their double winning season, when Gotze came back from his injury, he could not get back in to the team because Kagawa had taken his place as the team's no. 10. But the thing that frustrates me the most is when DM makes statements such as how the league title last season was won in a poor championship or that the squad need 6 more world class talents and he is being allowed to get away with it. City were still the same team from their title winning season with a few players brought in, Chelsea were defending Champions league winners with some new world class talents added to the team and utd won the league by 10 points. SAF is a genius but there is no way a team so rubbish could have won the title so handily because frankly in a 38 game season you will get found out, and DM has inherited the champions and all he needs are minor changes because regardless of SAF, if utd were a rubbish team, especially after CR7 left four years ago, they have won two league titles, and lost one on goal diff. and gotten to a champions league final, so there must be some substance to the team and a good manager should be able to see this. I am all for giving DM a chance because he has to build his own dynasty, but in the process, I hope he does not turn utd in to a gritty defensive team, because right now Everton play some very good football with most of the same players he had, and you worry that maybe he was a bit overated as a manager because he was always able to keep Everton in the top ten with no funds and that might have been his ceiling and he can't do any better and everytime I look at the bench, phil neville aside who has no coaching experience, i get concerned about the lack of championship pedigree, which in turn might limit the the world class talent we might be able to bring in to the club in the future. Ok Rant over
Because it's all he knows. United are a traditionally attacking club hence why the appointment was all the more bizarre. The only way to beat the big clubs/teams is by having a go and attacking them, Moyes has never done that hence why his record at Old Trafford, Anfield, Stamford Bridge and the Emirates (whilst at Everton) speaks for itself. Even when Moyes' sides would take the lead, they'd sit back and drop off. If you drop off against teams of that calibre, they'll be good enough to break you down 9/10. One of the reasons Barcelona defend so high up the pitch, is because individually they aren't good defenders.
Look at how differently, more fluidly Everton are playing without Moyes. Its almost as if caution is his default setting, indicative of someone who isn't confident in either his players abilities, or his own. Now we know our boys can play, so this hesitant, cautious style of play we have started the season with comes from him. It's all well and good some of these short sighted fans saying 'give Moyes time, look at fergie when he first came' etc, but the whole football dynamic has changed. Moyes hasd made some fundemental errors of judgment, particularly sacking the coaching staff, which was certainly not in Fergie's master-plan as is now plain to see. I'm a United fan, not a Fergie fan, not a Moyes fan. I don't care who it is in charge so long as they make a good job of it and Moyes is maiking a right arse of things and I fear it will only get worse. Once we get a few injuries and a few of the big egos start to get deflated, Moyes will be lost. Get Rene back now, save United.
How can saying give Moyes time be seen as being short sighted? That is a truly bizarre statement. He's cautious because the eyes of the world and in particular the media are pointed right at him. That's just natural. You should know how Fergie started out and how that ended. Give the bloke a chance for **** sake.
But he was cautious at Everton aswell. Look how much better they are playing without him in charge. Huge difference.
I don't think Martinez has anywhere near the pressure Moyes has do you? The comparison I'm making is not with the new Everton manager but with United's previous manager. Anyone thinking Ferguson turned up and deployed his team to play attacking football from day one is, frankly, talking out of their arse. He rebuilt the squad, then he did it. Moyes deserves the chance to do the same and he should stand or fall by that, not by the opinions of the media and opposition fans who already have the knives out.
It's not like the guy can create teams to play the United way, he has no other way of playing except to send out defensive formations. Its not like all his 'big' teams before United have played with dashing, attacking flair and he's playing a few steady games until he finds his feet. Look back at how Everton have played all these years - the guy simply can't change that style of play, he doesn't know any different. In any event, when Fergie arrived, we were crap and he was given time because, frankly, it couldn't have got much worse. Now it is completely different and it won't be long before the rest of you wake up and see where he is taking our championship winning team - down to where Everton used to be - before Martinez arrived.
Your answer is right here: http://www.not606.com/showthread.php/231081-Whats-going-on Apparently all he needs to do is 'keep it working', whatever that means...
Ha ha, yeah and my answer remains just as it did in #23 on that thread! And here's something I can say with certainty because I went to every single bloody game. When Fergie took over from Atkinson the football he inflicted on us was a damn sight worse than the stuff we played under big Ron which was to be honest mad free flowing, often losing, football but you went home smiling. Usually ruefully. It took years before Fergie had us playing good stuff. Half the time it was ****. That was because he was rebuilding the squad as the previous one had been left to rot. Now, Moyes may or may not be able to pull if off like Fergie did but I am prepared to give him more than ten ****ing games to try and certainly won't be acting all Mystic Meg and telling everyone that he WON'T be able to do it.
I can't believe how quickly people seem to have forgotten how well the club benefited from patience last time round, ****ing insane.
Moyes may well fail, time will tell. In the meantime I would rather we didn't turn into Man City and sack our manager every five minutes before they are allowed to address the glaring issues we have within the side which Mr Ferguson did not bother to do. We have one single midfield player worthy of wearing the United shirt, one who most definitely was (Giggs) and one who may well turn out to be (Fellaini) The rest are not. Fergie patched up this area of the side and had not even come close to replacing Roy Keane. Not even sure he tried to really. In the meantime Moyes will have to keep trying until he finds a team/formation he is happy with and the owners of the club and their lap dogs give him the money to buy where the squad needs strengthening. Instead of keeping lying their bollocks off to the press and saying there's **** loads to spend and then not ****ing spending it.
the supposed decline of utd started after Ronaldo left, the first year runners up in the league with Rooney being the outstanding player ably supported by Valencia, the next season, utd won the title with Nani being the best player ably supported by Vida and Berba, The season after that, Runners up to City with Rooney again being the outstanding player and then last season, title winners again with RVP being the outstanding player. So in four seasons there have been two titles and two runners up spot and considering majority of the squad is still there with the exception of Berba with RVP being an obvious upgrade, most of these players are still in their twenties and possibly yet to reach their peak and they have all won titles, champions league and been twice runners up with the exception of a few, so the question I ask is that when did this kind of success become irrelevant. These championship calibre players are being called crap as if they do not exist and did not play these games to get to where they are, instead they are ridiculed and majority of them are not rated by fans or the media alike, by that reckoning all the other big teams over the last four years have been crap, or is it just when utd win the league that it was a poor season because i have been hearing a lot of that lately.
Since Ronaldo left, Rooney has proven himself to be one of the top five forwards in this country, so has RVP, Nani even though he is not a regular and was always rotated during SAF's era, is statistically one of the top five most creative players in the country, De Gea was Voted as the best goalie by his peers, Vida is one of the best defenders in the world, Kagawa was the bundesliga player of the season before he went to utd, and granted the midfield could be better, SAF managed to get by without much improvements there, but DM had the funds in the summer to improve it and he did not, so whether that is his fault or Woodward's is not for me to say but surely with a squad full of proven champions, he should be doing a lot better than he is doing. Please do not compare this to when SAF took over from Big Ron as that utd team were a bunch of underachievers and drunks and once again i reiterate, DM inherited a squad that has won the league twice in four years and runners up when they did not win as well as getting to a champions league final so what exactly is average about that.
This will probably annoy a few but get over Roy Keane already, the guy has certainly moved on from utd. He was a utd great but in all his years there how many champions leagues did he win, I remember seeing him getting outplayed numerous times in Europe and they certainly did not think of him as highly in Europe as we do over here, in fact they rated the likes of Scholes, Beckham, Giggs a lot more highly in Europe. A lot of people always talk about that game in Turin against Juventus and how he dragged utd to the finals, but where is the credit to Yorke and Cole for scoring the goals they did, I remember Scholes having a good game that day as well. Keane was a very good midfielder in the premier league but in Europe he was always outclassed by smarter players like Redondo, Davids, Guardiola , Amor, Ricken, Ballack. I get that he was a warrior but his time has been up for a while now and since he left utd, they have won five league titles and gotten to three champions league finals, Utd fans claim that his era was SAF best team but how many Champions league finals did that team get to, so there is life after him. And anyway if you were going to replace him like for like, who out there is actually similar to him? You have to adjust and move on like SAF did and stop living in the past.
Our central midfield has not been the same since the Keane/Scholes partnership, this is the most bizarre comment I've seen regarding our midfield. Even ignoring Keane's presence and influence in the dressing room (which was immense), an all-round midfielder is sorely missed in our team to dominate and drive the team forward. Playing a two man midfield in Europe is always going to be tough when opposition usually pack the same area with 3+ players, and the Keane/Scholes partnership were one of the few partnerships that could stand up to challenge most times and stil dominate. Of course they were bettered at times, that's natural. Even Ronaldo and Messi have the odd day that defenders get the better of them.
Lot more plastics around these days. Plus, today's match going fan is paying a lot more than they were when Fergie stepped in so want more value for their money.
