Probably a touch over the top but I get the point. Don't remember Drogba ever deliberately getting someone sent off, what incidents you referring to?
If that had been a tackle then Verthonghen got the ball and Torres would have been judged to be late. Why is it different for a header?
I didn't condone Townsend's dive but apparently I 'support a cheat' to quote one of your posters. So did all Chelsea fan's 'support a cheat'?
Why because one Chelsea fan said that, you think everyone does? If you're defending his dive then of course you're supporting a cheat, quite a few on this forum did the same with Bale.
Christ, is he really comparing aerial challenges to tackles. God, he is so desperate to support his cheat that he's looking ridiculous now.
Not sure what relevance Drogba's diving 5/6 years ago has now. It has nothing to do with governing bodies being scared, the fact is diving in most cases is completely subjective.
Because when the ball is in midair nobody has control over it, it's completely 50/50. you can judge distance far better when the ball is played on the floor hence why players are often cautioned or red carded for mistimed tackles but not for aerial duels. Dropping ball: please log in to view this image Travelling ball: please log in to view this image
I have never condoned cheating - If JV didn't get hit in the head he is wrong to be holding it. But that doesn't mean Torres didn't foul him. I was wrong to use the word tackle though. That implies someone has possession. A 50:50 loose ball on the ground would be better. All I'm trying to argue is that the ref could easily have seen Torres' challenge as a foul and it was at worst an honest mistake, not any sign of bias. No-one on here has condemned 'your' cheat Torres for his cowardly assault on JV with his fingernails. Why not?
To send someone off the ref has to be sure it was a bad foul/intent to harm, not guess work from a fair 50/50 aerial ball. There was no obvious intent to harm from either JV or Torres. As for Torres, plenty have criticised him accross different threads for his scratch, if you bothered to read without calling that accusation you'd see. However, this thread isn't about that, it's about Mourinho's comments and the way Vertonghen acted to send Torres off.
There is nothing in any of the Laws about the ref being sure about anything. I agree he shouldn't be guessing though, but he is entitled to act on the balance of probabilities. And he only gave a yellow card - so he didn't think it was violent conduct or serious foul play, just a reckless challenge.
Sorry I should've been clearer. I was trying to say Mourinho's comments about Vertonghen being a disgrace would've been taking more seriously if he publicly judged his own players by the same standards. If this was done while he was in goal for you do you really think he would've come out with similar statements? When he was managing Real there were a few players who regularly got up to similar stuff (Pepe, Marcelo Arbeloa etc.) and I doubt he condemned them once. I think Mourinho is using this incident to deflect attention away from either his decision not to start Mata when he was so influential when he came on, or what Torres did which he has made no comments on. Obviously he isn't the only one who this could apply to.
You really are digging a deeper hole here PS, don't know why you're continuing. Why should it be in the 'rule book' (which I assume you have read cover to cover and have etched on your memory seeing as though you quote it so frequently) that a referee needs to do his job properly? They are paid to give correct decisions and need to be 100% sure before sending off, if you don't agree with that then there's just no point continuing this. It wasn't a reckless challenge in the slightest, the ball was in the air and they both tried to win it. Fair enough and I disagree tbf, I think Mourinho was angry with Vertonghen for staying down and made a spur of the moment comment. He didn't actually label him a disgrace, just said what he did was disgraceful.
You really are digging a deeper hole here PS, don't know why you're continuing. Why should it be in the 'rule book' (which I assume you have read cover to cover and have etched on your memory seeing as though you quote it so frequently) that a referee needs to do his job properly? They are paid to give correct decisions and need to be 100% sure before sending off, if you don't agree with that then there's just no point continuing this. It wasn't a reckless challenge in the slightest, the ball was in the air and they both tried to win it. Fair enough and I disagree tbf, I think Mourinho was angry with Vertonghen for staying down and made a spur of the moment comment. He didn't actually label him a disgrace, just said what he did was disgraceful.
I quote the rules only when I think someone else has misunderstood them and I certainly don't know them well, but I do check. The business of the ref being sure is quite an interesting point if you like this sort of thing. It obviously isn't true in all cases: eg offside. If the assistant had to be sure before putting up his flag then the number of offside decisions wrongly given would be very small but there would be loads of offsides not given because he wasn't sure. In my experience they come out more evenly which suggests they 'guess' the close ones. An incorrect offside decision can certainly affect the game outcome so there is no reason why a higher standard of certainty should be applied to a Yellow Card, which usually doesn't. It would really be quite illogical for the standard for the second yellow to be higher than the first, because that implies a player on a caution would be treated more leniently than one who wasn't. I happen to think that the Laws of the Game, are very badly written and would benefit greatly from some advice to refs on how sure they have to be. However this thread isn't the right place for this discussion - I might start something on the Spurs board if I get a moment. Wording of rules is actually very important though. There is a sign on most escalators on the tube saying 'Dogs must be carried' and I always break it as I don't have a dog with me. However if I pass a sign saying 'Tickets must be shown' without a ticket I am in trouble.
Yes they have but how is it cheating? Cheating is to gain an advantage. Torres was not gaining any advantage scratching. Assault yes, cheating , no.
Part of the problem is that all players from all teams are out to cheat the ref. The number of times a whole bunch of players throw their hand up like a school kid needing the toilet, when the ball has gone out for a throw. You might have 3 from each team, with one of them clearly having the last touch and 3 of them not even seeing the incident. It's pathetic really, but very little can be done. You can't exactly have a panel to look at every cheating incident in a game and retrospectively punish people. What is worse, a feigned foul/injury or a throw in/corner. Depends on the outcome? At what point does that incident no longer affect the current play....2, 3, 5 touches, 30 seconds, 2 minutes? What if the throw in results in a flick on and a goal? I hate them all. I think I'm going to stop watching the game. ...alright, maybe I won't, but it's bloody annoying. My lad (who is only 11) was playing in a match at the weekend in the local league. These aren't players who will end up making it big, just kids playing football as part of a structured team and league. On the other team, one kids kept diving and feigning injury......an 11 year old. In the same game, kids from both teams were calling for a goal kick / corner, when it was clear they touched the goal. Unfortunately, what is seen in the Premier League (and around the world) in "top class" football, transpires to the kids. It's poor. When you tell the kids not to do it, they say, "well, Man U / Chelsea / Arsenal etc.etc. do it.....the team we are playing against do it, if we don't then they have an advantage". However many times you tell them they are doing the right thing by not cheating, it really doesn't make them feel any better when the results go against them. Rant over
Got to say I have a more critical view of Torres and sympathetic one of Vertonghen here. The scratch was nasty and he should have been off for it. If someone scratched me across the face I would have chinned them, so fair play to Vertonghen for not reacting to it by going down or lashing back out at Torres. What I will say is that I thought Vertonghen went down very easily in the challenge. I'm not so sure if Torres clipped him or if he made enough contact with him or the type for him to go down. Torres is also not an aggressive or violent player so it was really out of character to see him do that. Did he feel that Vertonghen had dived or gone down way to easily to win a free-kick and get him booked, didn't like the way Vertonghen confronted him and reacted badly to it or did Vertonghen say something to him? I don't know. But he should have seen red for it and when he didn't I was really wanting for Jose to take him off, especially after they still continued to have a few tussles. I could see he was a sending off just waiting to happen and he's lucky to not be facing any further punishment for it. When Torres finally saw red I wasn't surprised, but what he did go for wasn't even a foul let alone a booking. And it's there that you can be critical of Vertonghen for staying down and feigning injury, after he had pulled Torres' shirt to bring him down with him. By that point he shouldn't have been on the pitch anyway and it highlighted two big decisions which the officials got wrong.
