Some threads just need sitting back and ignoring for a while, then you read them through and see what drivel or common sense has been written or provoked.... this one is another cover of the on going us v them with him in the middle. WE ALL KNOW there is a small penis, sorry nucleus, that whatever the result it will never be what they wanted.... I once had a regular position at the open end (about 6 steps back) in front of us was a group of half a dozen, none over 5 foot six 2 were about 16 stone ans one about 5 foot nothing...throughout every game they were mouth mouth mouth, we had a bad patch lost a couple and drew a couple, imagine their mouth's their jaws were like the back wheel of a bike going over cobbles.................. We won a game, think it was a deflected goal, ended 6 without a win and the loudest mouthed overweight ugliest 5 foot nothing ratchet jaw as the final whistle blew shouted out at the team ( who were mostly in the penalty area trying to get another goal) " you were lucky to win that you load of *********** tossers". The main problem is the boo boys probably do not read, so don't know the stratedgy of SOD and the re build.........as long as we get 55 points this season we should be safe...we are playing a 36 game season worth 108 points so lets get half of them average 1.5 points a game. Our possession is such is that SOD is winning, OK we desparately need a striker or 2 (see the Liverpool thread) but we will always have those moronic "you know what they look like" boo boys the same as we have road sweepers and brain surgeons, not knocking road sweepers..as they do fantastic jobs (mostly) I once fancied a job on Motorway maintenance..keeping them clean, ..fresh air exercise etc.......................
As Shiny pointed out on another thread, come October 10th, and assuming we dont have the miracle of a win by then, it will be a whole calendar year with just 8 league wins to our name. Just how bad is that ? For all the SOD apologists, I accept and acknowledge your points of view, and share your hopes for the future, but the league table, and our lack of quality and results dont lie. We're in the bottom 4 of the 3rd division, with a thin squad, long term injuries, and we're making excuses and lamenting bad luck when we can't beat the likes of Shrewsbury and Colchester at home. That sets the tone nicely for the next set of excuses when we get beaten at Vale Park on Saturday. Allied to that we are now possibly on the worst run in the clubs entire history, and in JET we know we have a player who may go missing in games for a part of the season. 55 points right now, looks a long long way away to me. We are already nearly 1/4 of the way through the season and are 21 points off the top of the league.
I am sorry, I have read all of this, and it's dinosaur age stuff. This is 2013, almost 2014. Football has changed dramatically in the last FIVE years due to money alone. Players are going for prices double what our entire club is worth, and it seems perfectly acceptable. To think that a slow and steady change is going to set us up well for the future is quite frankly, daft! I appreciate all the little background stuff that might be being changed for the long term future, but the bottom is falling out of the game at our end of the spectrum, and we are in danger of being extinct. You do the kind of changes SOD wants at the high end of the leagues when you have parachute payments. Not when you are hemorrhaging money year in year out and losing fans at an alarming rate. The days of trying to emulate a Swansea for example have been and passed! SOD is not the way forward, for us, or for anyone, because he lacks the ability to lead. He is a first team coach still riding the dregs of a crashed out wave in terms of his managerial career. We need someone on the up and up to lead any kind of revolution I'm afraid. At the moment we have the managerial equivalent of a Dele Adebola style journeyman at the helm. With a tried, tired and failed idea of football style. It's that simple.
'Redprintt will tell you he lost faith in the man because he started the season with Kilkenny? Yet fails to give him any praise for the fact that after being given that chance SOD took him out because he clearly wasn't up to it..' I've seen enough to know Kilkenny wasn't up to it, why should I praise SOD for his misjudgement ? 'On paper Kilkenny would have appeared to be exactly the type of player the midfield needed to start this transition' - Not to me, it was clear as crystal the complete opposite and I said in July - 'This 'new way of playing' with Kilkenny involved is doomed to fail' and 'The nasty Aussie is utterly useless and makes up for his own shortcomings by bollic*** 10 others.What really concerns me is that SOD thinks he can play'. His worst 'attribute' is his continual moans at others mistakes, some established pro's lose confidence alongside that kind of player let alone a player straight from the Academy. It's the same with Fielding, from his Bradford performance I knew he was inept at the long through ball, which is a terrible problem for defenders. He doesn't know the meaning of anticipation. It's taken SOD to long to drop him, again I question SOD's judgement. Now, further advice for SOD. He needs a Plan C. Plan A - Possession /passing football is an admirable aim. But you need players able to implement this strategy. We don't. SOD may as well play Fielding and Parish up front and Baldock in goal. All this 'possession/passing' does is allow s**t teams to fall back (at leisure) and take up defensive positions in their own half closing all space down. And after 3 or 4 times passing along the back 4 we then launch it. Against Colchester 1st half we did exactly as above. 2nd half when Harewood came on we launched it every time - SOD's plan B. We all know there are differing Plan Cs - SOD has to find one - quick.
Football has changed dramatically in the last FIVE years due to money alone. ... And that explains Sean O 'driscolls appointment. Forward thinking and used to working within budgets. To think that a slow and steady change is going to set us up well for the future is quite frankly, daft! Why? Could not the clubs work with hundreds, thousands of kids over years not be beneficial? You do the kind of changes SOD wants at the high end of the leagues when you have parachute payments ... Do you/they? Parachute payments increase the income clubs have to spend. Clubs spend against these payments = They encourage clubs to spend more. Clubs have an extra forty eight million to spend over four years, that is not a reduction in spending losing fans at an alarming rate ... Fact or opinion? Check historical gate figures and averages v division. I appreciate all the little background stuff that might be being changed for the long term future ... It isn't little. There is a large on going investment. Check v other clubs in the division and the West Country. Should this attempt to become a West Country centre of excellence not be encouraged? He lacks the ability to lead ... What matches this season do you feel the players were not trying? Saturday? Swindon? Southampton? Talking to players in private, quietly could be passionate. It can also be more effective. Waving your arms around actually can be a sign of being lost and having no ideas, unable to get points across bawl, throw yourself on the ground, beat the grass up, children can do that. With a tried, tired and failed idea of football style. It's that simple ... Subjective. Two promotions gained. What teams are no longer possession based and successful?
Football's woes due to the massive amounts of money being thrown in the game around started a lot longer ago than 5 years. We are not only losing fans because of the crappy division we are now in thanks in a large part to SOD, but the total lack of engagement with the general public and his dispassionate and frankly bewildering (at times) comments and attitude. Trying to lay the blame at our door for performances and results hasn't exactly installed him as a favourite either. From his time in charge at BCFC we are much worse off in terms of results, league position, division we are in, quality of the playing staff, home attendances, fans belief in him SOD has done reasonably well with 2 smallish clubs in Bouremouth & Doncaster, but we are not like either of them, and our expectations are probably a lot higher. He is an experienced manager and whether anyone agrees or not he's not doing well at the job in hand here, and all that really matters to any club in any league are the results and that's what he is being judged on.
Bristol City's spending beyond its income really did start five years ago. Check the accounts. Bristol City went from a FC that operated around breaking even to one losing forty millions in seasons. Gate figures are similar to the clubs last visit to this division. I have touched on positive support before, Gary Johnson also criticised Bristol City fans, openly lauded the Eastend, "they have something .." or similar while criticising the Dolman streaming out. They are both right. Sean O'driscoll has done a brilliant job elsewhere. Cut out the odd mistake and City would already be meeting my modest expectations for this season. Results don't matter if the efforts to get them bankrupts the FC. That IS where BCFC were except for Mr Lansdown. Check the accounts.
Cliftonville - I am the only member of my family from two brothers, a father, a brother in law, a sister in law and a cousin all of whom had season tickets since the days of Danny Wilson was first appointed, all of which have not renewed for the first time this year for the first time. I have two friends who used to attend both home and away games, who now only go to the occasional home game. For my small social circle, that is a huge percentage who no longer go to games. Parachute payments allow a team to invest in the right areas in my view, not pay millions for players they can't afford. That was my point. As for SOD's methods working in the past? Well any of his success occurred 6 years ago, what has he done since?
City's gates are similar to those previously experienced in this division. Averages have been lower than they are now. The 20 -30% uplift post promotion was already significantly pre McCinnes reduced, there is now another obvious drop that is normal. Parachute payments are spent on wages. Clubs who receive that buffer do not have to run their clubs like Bristol City do as they have an additional forty eight million pounds of income. Parachute payments also allow clubs to overspend. Your point was very different. Sean O'driscoll was managing Doncastor in that time period. Championship Doncastor. Doncastor finishing mid table with all respect to Donny is an impressive achievement. I expect similar sized Yeovil to get relegated quickly. Forest seventh/eight position sacked ... Can't place an credence on that, don't know much about it, too short term, barely seems relevant.
Blackpool never had the wage structure where they needed parachute payments to fund inflated salaries, same goes for Hull, who have re-invested in their youth, stadium, and the areas that matter for change. They didn't have owners anywhere near as wealthy as ours. You say it is impressive for Donny to finish midtable, but as we showed year in year out in that league it didn't take a great deal to do that. As our football was poor and our results massive inconsistent, we finished top 10 with negative goal difference. He was also bottom of the table at Christmas with them, and only Billy Sharpe saved them! Again this was along time ago in footballing terms and since his promotion to the Championship he has hardly been outstanding, I'd say below average.
But still you offer no alternative or a suggestion of where further financing will come from? if our football was poor in the championship why would you wish to continue in that vane?
"What really concerns me is that SOD thinks he can play" Redprintt if SOD would have been aware you didn't rate Kilkenny I'm sure he would never have played him.. Why didn't you let him know.!
'Redprintt if SOD would have been aware you didn't rate Kilkenny I'm sure he would never have played him.. Why didn't you let him know.!' I did - the stupid SOD thought he knew better.
Blackpool used parachute payments to fund salaries, and infra structure, and were relegated in one season. They make small profits despite the huge rewards for one seasons relegation. Hull City used used parachute payments to fund salaries and still made considerable losses. You say it is impressive for Donny to finish mid table, but as we showed year in year out in that league it didn't take a great deal to do that ... Doncastor did this on a great deal less, 100% + less v BCFC. That is an admirable achievement, a recent achievement and is a parallel. I expect the goal keeper, centre halves, midfield and Coaches tactics helped Billy Sharpe save them. Forest can hardly be considered. I do not expect Yeovil to survive with similar outlay, but hope I am wrong. Bristol City spending was above average for several seasons.
Banksy, I don't ever recall saying buying our way out of mess was what we needed. There are hundreds are far more hungry players in lower leagues, and an abundance of youth talent to play easily at this level. Failures like O'Connor, or any other loan player costs more than it does to invest wisely in youth and lower league talents. As for Hull and Blackpool, which players other than Jimmy Bullard are you referring to, that would have been on a wage that meant they needed 50+ million to float their salary outlays???????? Also, I am sorry, but Donny's achievements were nothing special, that league was poor for years, and we spent money in ALL the wrong areas under GJ, that much is obvious to most, just because we spent a fortune on garbage, doesn't mean Donny's achievements were any greater. It just highlights how poor our signings were. It's like trying to convince a Christian that there is no god, you will never see the truth in my eyes about Sean, and you are preaching to an Atheist. It's all interpretation and opinion, and although I respect your opinions, I will never agree with them. If we suddenly have an upturn in fortune and SOD turns us into a midtable championship side within 3 years, I will eat my hat and apologise to you all. But I honestly don't see that day ever coming under his reign. I support the players 100%, and you can see that in my attitude on match day, but I don't support the man supposedly leading them anymore.
ibody.. You don't appear to understand how parachute payments work. Hulls wage bill was thirty five million plus at one point and supported by parachute payments that are seasonal one off. Clubs have loaned money v payments that receive later. O'driscoll at Bournemouth and Doncastor v your fave Di Cannio at Swindon? O'driscoll easy winner there. Crewe, Rotherham perhaps have done similar over decades. Doncastor in reality are a far smaller club than the Gas. O'driscolls financial prudence, pragmatism v Di Cannio? Well Di Cannio lost an entire club fans, players and directors in weeks of this season. It would be interesting to hear you combatting points with a straight forward blue print of what your BCFC looks like. You are skipping that one.
Thanks for trying to educate me, but I am fairly certain my professors at Bristol University already did a fairly good job at that. I know exactly what Parachute payments are for, and totally disagree with them. If a club fails, they should not be rewarded for it financially. If you go up with a group of players, you pay them accordingly for their achievements. If you bring in players you can't afford to pay, then why should you be rewarded for their failure to keep you up. You simply sell them on for less than what you paid for them, as you cannot afford their wages. It is more of an incentive to give the players that got you the original promotion the opportunity they deserve. Not wipe the team clean of its victors and install new highly paid flops. When/if you are relegated, 50% wage clauses are installed into most contracts, and the players that were on say £10,000 in your promotion year, get a new salary of double that in the premier league. If you get relegated, it goes down to £10,000 again. Why should you be awarded a parachute payment for this? If you are, why not have the measures I have explained in place, so that you can use that money to go forward, not "hang in there" financially to overpay people? Which was what my point was in the first place. If you want to strip a club, and change things from top to bottom, you need to do it when you have the financial investment, not when you are languishing in relegation places every season. We will get stung, hurt and ultimately all suffer for it. I can understand you need to make sacrifices, but the days of doing what we are trying to do, have come and gone. The place you start with change, is on the pitch, with results, something we are not seeing under SOD, and haven't seen for almost a year! Who said he was my "fave"??? I stated he would have been my preference before SOD! I'd still like him now over SOD! But he would be far from my first choice. If you follow my posts so closely, you will see I am a fan of the MK Dons manager, and someone up and coming! If any of us had a straightforward bullet proof blueprint, would we be writing it on a forum to other fans? Or would we have a job in the Premier League as Director of Football? I don't have one, and neither do you, but some of us understand this is an opinion forum, and some of us don't. Not sure which side of the table you sit on in that capacity, but I could have a pretty good guess WURZEL.
If my posts are not factual there are details on line to blow a hole in them. Doncastor whatever division thet are in have a budget that is modest to tiny. Despite what can be an enormous handicap they have gone forwards, made less more and Sean O'driscoll was an intrinsic part of that. I feel that given the disadvantage DRFC are at the they and their ex Coach are deserving of the upmost praise, and respect for attempting to inject some sanity into football, instead of a sniffy, "I am sorry, but Donny's achievements were nothing special" I would suggest you check BCFC's end of financial year reports. The accountants summaries make gory reading, BCFC as a business is not an on going concern, it relied totally on the largesse of Steve Lansdown. That is the primary reality City start with and any business plan with its expenditure on players has to work with that constraint. Within this thread you have been asked questions. Questions you have decided to evade. I am struggling to find the essense of your points. I can't identify what type of football you want City to play. If it is win at all costs, adopt % [pomo] BCFC can scrap the academy for instance, technique will be hardly necessary if City do not play a possession based game. I think it is fair that you provide your substitute model for BCFC, a model that can work within the constraints of FFP, and has identified individuals at its helm.
Here we go Rhinothing??? I would reduce spending on the squad and bin most of last seasons XI and hangers on where possible. Reduce senior squad size but fill with development squad and youth Increase the size and emphasis of the academy the cost of which is exempt v FFP. Create an academy that attempts to be the regions best and biggest - far reaching. I would appoint a successful Head Coach who is used to working within tight budgets and places great emphasis on youth development and academies. Increase community involvement. Increase fan involvement - rep on board from fans bodies I would concentrate on producing players via the community [junior clubs], academy - youth teams which all attempt to play a more European skilled passing game in line again with Foreign clubs. That would start at infant school age there in linde again with the Dutch and Spanish. Timesacle for nirvana? It ain't eight nine months or whatever Mr O'drsicoll has had. Not so dissimilar to what is going on is it? Prety clear ideal of Bristol City there.
