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Loan signings ?

Discussion in 'Plymouth' started by Plymborn, Sep 21, 2013.

  1. Plymborn

    Plymborn Well-Known Member
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    We are two weeks into the loan window....and I am surprised that John Sheridan hasn't made a move for an attacking mid-fielder and a genuine goalscorer.

    Having lost 5 out of 8 or 62.5% of matches played...you might think that the defence needs shoring up....and maybe it does....but goals win games and we showed today with reasonable possession we cannot score for the life of us.

    Is there something fundamentally wrong with this team or the management of them....what do you think ???
     
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  2. WestCountrylalala

    WestCountrylalala Active Member
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    I don't think the problem lies with the manager though I do think it's belief with the players, over the years losing has become the norm. I agree we need goal scorers - confident ones.
     
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  3. notDistantGreen

    notDistantGreen Well-Known Member

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    It's hard to believe that "losing has become the norm". The manager, the coaching staff and the owner have changed. By my reckoning, there were only two players who started yesterday that went through any part of the Bad Years - Hourihane and Berry.

    Either:

    1) Sheridan has brought in the wrong players, either in their basic ability or the character to convert their talent to results on match day or
    2) The budget isn't sufficient for Sheridan to get players of sufficient quality or
    3) The players are basically sound but best use isn't being got from them in terms of tactics

    I tend to 3) at least in part. OK, it's a single-issue hobbyhorse of mine but why play Morgan on the left wing when you have Gurrieri on the bench? Morgan has good ball skills but doesn't get much penetration which impacts on Reid.
     
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  4. WestCountrylalala

    WestCountrylalala Active Member
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    I think it speaks volumes when a side plays better away than they do at home, this has been going on for years, pressure to win is greater at home. I do believe a lot of it is confidence, same players or not. I think the squad should be sufficient for league2.
     
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  5. WestCountrylalala

    WestCountrylalala Active Member
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    Having said this, the squad could do with a couple of players to "sharpen" things up.
     
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  6. notDistantGreen

    notDistantGreen Well-Known Member

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    It's the manager's job to build confidence too! Fletcher was criticised for always defending his players no matter how bad they'd been: I see Sheridan has been criticising them in public only recently.

    Which is right? I don't know, wish I did! Neither seems to be working for us.
     
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  7. Greenarmyjoe

    Greenarmyjoe Well-Known Member

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    What has happened to Luke Young? has he been Injured?
     
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  8. Plymborn

    Plymborn Well-Known Member
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    Mrs LaLa.....you've turned into a bit of a chatter-box today........please keep it up......but of coarse don't neglect little ole Beau too much.
     
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  9. Greenarmyjoe

    Greenarmyjoe Well-Known Member

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    Nice to hear from you also Mrs Lala.. how is the seagull/pidgeon? <whistle><badger>
     
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  10. lyndhurstgreen

    lyndhurstgreen Active Member

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    I think that the players are probably individually good enough (but a couple of new faces wouldn't do any harm), I just think that they haven't jelled well/at all. Still early(ish) days considering the number of new players. I too would like to see Luke Young in the starting 11 or at least getting some decent match time.

    It goes without saying that Saturday V Accrington is a massive match and if we don't win well I might well be less sympathetic to JS and the team than I currently am.
     
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  11. WestCountrylalala

    WestCountrylalala Active Member
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    Naaaaw have you missed me Plym? Joe??

    Beau is doing fine - my little angel with silver wings ;)
     
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  12. Greenarmyjoe

    Greenarmyjoe Well-Known Member

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    Yes you have been missed!! glad the pidgoen is ok :laugh:
     
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  13. sensiblegreeny

    sensiblegreeny Well-Known Member
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    The players, or at least some of them lack heart. The way they folded against Wycombe was a sight to behold and it wasn't pretty. Now the question is why do they lack heart and of course it's one I can't answer. Standard wise most of them are not bad at all so this may be down to the manager partly at least. I agree that it is his job to make them winners and believe they can be. He does seem to be failing in that lately. The second half of last season was near on promotion form. He has had chance to go out and change a lot of the faces and yet now they seem to have reverted to the Argyle of old without being the old players. Have to say it's worrying. Not so much as they lost to Scunny because if honest the result wasn't a shock but it's some of the results where, if they were playing to standard they should have gotten something out of the matches. Something seems to be not quite right. I'm getting a tad nervous about this season even though it's early days.
     
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  14. Plymborn

    Plymborn Well-Known Member
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    Is his little legs out of the splints yet......such a shame he had dodgy legs.
     
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  15. devonsurfer

    devonsurfer Member

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    Is it really hard to believe? Losing is the norm and has been for the last 5 years? Whilst you are correct in stating that owner, manager, coach and players have all changed numerous times in that period, you have conveniently forgotten to cover what hasn't changed and that is where the problem really lies. A club is not just made up of an owner, a manager and a bunch of players. It also consists (or at least should consist of) an armada of other functions and staff which make up the running of the place and the whole ethos of the club. This remains largely unchanged or non-existant at Argyle and is in my opinion where the problem lies, where the real cause of mediocrity lives. The set-up of the club, the facilities, the 'technical' level of the club, the expectation, the whole professionalism in general.

    When you look at other teams, they have armies of specialists that analyse every technical aspect of each player and each game. Experts who conduct video analysis and use computer models to evaluate players performance and give feedback to the manager. Statiticians who can determine the effectiveness of a player against the objectives he has been set and give feedback to the manager. Sports scientists who can devise plans to optimise performance and give recommendations to the manager, sports psychologists who can get inside the players minds and apply proven techniques to get better performances, sports nutritionists who can keep players fuelled up in the best possible way.

    Do you think any of this stuff happens at Argyle? Not a flippin chance. It is old-fashioned back of ***-packet stuff all the way. The manager at Argyle is like a lone figure with a skeleton crew to help him. There is no team of specialists in sight.

    Can you imagine an army without a logistics department, without an intelligence network, without technical analysts, without special forces, without communications teams, without air support, without artillery, without a headquarters?

    Imagine an army that consists of just one Rear Echelon General, one frontline Sgt and 20 odd grunts! This is Plymouth Argyle. This is why they lose every battle they enter.
     
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  16. devonsurfer

    devonsurfer Member

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    Every game I've ever been to, I always make a point of looking who is on or around the bench. I think the fact the bench at Argyle consists of just that, a single bench, tells you all you need to know.

    People say we should be an established Championship side for the size of our club, our history and our following. Well, next chance you get, take a look at the bench of a real established Championship side and you will see not one bench with a couple of old has-beens mooching about, but several rows of technical specialists sat watching and observing, collecting data and analysing, monitoring and advising.

    People say that Argyle never have a route back into a game when they go behind, they say we're unable to change tactics effectively or make substitutions at the right time.

    why do you think that is? because the manager is on his own! Back of ***-packet Argyle, sort it out!
     
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  17. sensiblegreeny

    sensiblegreeny Well-Known Member
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    Hello again surfer.

    Whilst I agree that all of the above would be an asset and nice to have what I don't believe is many if any other clubs in this league have half of what you are suggesting if any of it at all. This is league 2 after all and if you look at the gate receipts of most of them then the above would be a non starter financially.

    Argyle are indeed one of the back of a *** packet brigade these days. We went bust and are paying off debts so despite out mega gates in comparison we still aren't exactly rich. If, and it is a big if indeed, we got promoted then perhaps it would be right to expect a couple of extra experts in something to arrive. If, and that is an even bigger one, we ever manage to claw our way back to Championship level then it might be right to expect the full monty in regard to staff in the back offices. Until then all I can say is it would be nice to have but I don't expect it anytime soon.

    The thing that seems to be lacking is motivation of the players we have. Why this lot should be in anyway compared to previous squads is beyond me. There is no "habit" in this squad because the ones who got used to losing have gone. But, it's like a ghost hanging around the place which takes over the players as soon as they set foot on the pitch for a competetive game. One week they can play like champions but then for the next three or four play like total losers. It's bizaar. I expected progress this season. Not huge progress but progress nonetheless. So far it ain't happening. It's worrying so early in the season but it's hard to see where it will change right now.
     
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  18. mexijan

    mexijan Active Member

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    http://www.pafc.co.uk/team/staff-profiles/ yep massively under staffed for a League 2 side <doh>

    Plus Academy staff including Hodges, Nance and Stonebridge. Football analyist in Matt Neil...

    Perhaps we just need a bigger *** packet so they can all all write on it.
     
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  19. devonsurfer

    devonsurfer Member

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    Don't be too quick to big up the academy. The PAFC set up is nothing compared to what Exeter have. Exeter kids have dedicated facilities and have each game video recorded and analysed, what do Argyle have? A couple of old players stood around with clipboards at various schools or pitches they can hire off someone else, AKA back of *** packet technology. I've also had it on good word that they couldn't spot talent if it kicked them up the backside. They seem to prefer blood n' snotters grafters over kids with natural flair with some 2-footed, quick paced, intelligent lads dropped over 1-footed carthorses that will run head down towards goal all day long.

    Another key factor in why Argyle are so poor can be directed straight to the owners doorstep. Yes that's right, the beloved and sacred saviour and saint that is Mr Brent. My impression of this man is someone who is focused almost entirely on development of the area and expansion of his own empire. The football side of things is way down the list of priorities and is merely something to entertain family and influencial associates with on a Saturday. That's how it looks to me.

    One of the prerequisites to having a successful football club is having owners that want to run a successful football club as their primary or even only objective. Despite his God-like status among supporters grateful for him 'saving' the club, Brent is the complete opposite to this prerequisite.

    If Argyle want to look to someone to follow, they should look no further than Swansea City. I remember when Argyle played them when we were in the Championship and Swansea had just come up from League One. They played us off the park and I was absolutely blown away with how perfect passing football was seemingly instilled in their blood. From one game I could tell they were seriously going places. When I researched them a bit I found out their whole ethos is built around quality footballing excellence. No blood n' snotters for them. Swansea have survived some serious shake ups with managers leaving, key players leaving yet they're still a formidable force claiming big scalps and serious respect in the Premier League. Why is that? because they have quality football ethos running through every inch of the place, it's who they are and what they do and everyone is committed to it. So much so that they can easily absorb serious losses of key staff/players and carry on unaffected.
     
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  20. sensiblegreeny

    sensiblegreeny Well-Known Member
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    Blood and snotters is endemic of this country as a whole surfer not just at Argyle. Even a lot of the premiership sides buy players by the yard rather than anything else. We are worlds away from countries like Spain for example who take kids at a very early age and teach them with a ball rather than just growing them and being fit. This current league is all about size more often than not.

    I think you may find that Brent isn't quite the revered saint in the eyes of Argyle supporters as you suggest. There is massive mistrust and it is only a chosen few who see him as you describe. Brent shows little interest in the football. He shows mega interest in the development side and people see that. He is never going to show much interest until it comes to the sell on when he can bank a few quid to add to his pot. Lots and lots of people believe that now.
     
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