You're right, he can't keep saying it. But he can say it with considerable justification in regards to yesterday's game. We had at least 5 clear chances and on another day we would have put at least two away. It's fine margins at this level.
Beddy, I am not disagreeing that the slow build up can be frustrating and we haven't seen the red arrows yet.... BUT, what is your suggestion we should do? Play it quicker? Does that mean we knock the ball forward earlier and quicker? Remember that the two teams that have visited us so far have sat back behind the ball, so I worry that if we start knocking it up there quicker, we'll end up giving the ball away more often and in turn lead to us being under more pressure. I'm not picking on you as several people have said we are too slow in the build up. I felt yesterday that when we did try and move it quickly, we often lost possession. To me, we have to be patient in the build up when we play teams that sit back and keep those triangles going with the passing, trying to tease a defender out of position. Then we MUST be clinical with the right final pass at the right pace with the right finish. Two examples of that are: 1. Yesterday, the move that lead to Adam getting into the box. His first touch was just too heavy, but that was close to working that defender out of position. A better touch and he is centre of goal and just the keeper to beat. 2. The goal against Boro in the championship; lots of change of direction in the passing (yes, I do believe that passing the ball backwards can be positive when done correctly). The problem with this example? Easy, the opposition. West Ham and Sunderland are a wee bit better defensively than Boro. I'll get shot down now, because I sit around Saints fans every week, but here goes: if anything, we have stopped being patient in the build up and I think part of that is because the fans get anxious. When we play full back to midfielder to CB to fullback to CB to midfielder, etc, it often ends up with a 30-40 yard lofted ball which in 80% of times will be a 50:50 challenge between CF and CB... other team gets the ball. England anyone? In this league there are fewer occasions when the ball can be played forward quickly and safely. If we 'force' things and I felt we do that sometimes, then we lose the ball, the game opens up and we can be under threat. If people want fast attacking play with red arrows (remember that was away to then Champions Man City), then we must change our style to a counter attacking team, sit back and wait for the opposition to come on to us. This is why we can look faster against a Chelsea or a City because they also have a lot of the ball. I'd rather play a patient style than a too direct style. How many times did West Ham sent the ball straight to Boruc or to our defender?
Trouble is slow play does not give you the unpredictability that you need to break teams down. There is of course ....slow play and very slow play. We were caught or nearly caught in possession so many times because of the..... A.......Predictability of our passes across the back......B...... because of the distance of some of the passing across the field giving them time to close down. ......C.......because our mid field did not move into space close enough . ......D........ when they did they seemed to pass the ball back into the back four who were already under pressure. Happily I am not the manager, I just know there has to be another way other teams manage it so can we !!
I agree with point C 100% and I think this accountsfor points A and B. Point D wouldn't matter if point C was fixed. Just to keep this going Beddy, I'm going to probe a little if you don't mind. Not saying you are wrong. * Which teams are managing it? * How are they doing it?
Barcelona do it. What they do though is the slow build up (same) followed by a burst of urgency in both movement and passing - it's the latter part we need to work on.
Exactly. I worry though that at home, the fans get frustrated and encourage that ball to be gotten forward quicker and we do it at the wrong time. We aren't Barca or have their staff at our disposal though.
Yesterday wasn't the best but also wasn't the worse. People are moaning about our slow build up play, yet how many chances did we create from it? According to the BBC we had 15 shots and 5 on target. I would say against a team as defensive as West Ham that isn't bad going. Our build up play may be slower then usual but it is still creating chances, so I don't see a problem in this. The problem is the same as we had last season we don't take our chances enough. People calling for Cork to be back and Wanyama isn't good enough are probably the same people that slagged of Ramirez last season. Just give him a chance it has been 4 games.
For those that were criticising the 15m that West Ham paid for Carrol, I will say this: 12.5m for Victor Wanyama
I wouldn't be at all surprised to see our £12m holding midfielder score as many goals this season as your £15m striker.
Hmm, I heard/read £17.5M everywhere, but I won't argue it. And yes, VW has to prove himself in the PL. Like Carroll has.
Possibly, but I'm not one of them. I really like Ramirez and would like to see him play. The cry of "come back Jack, all is forgiven" is based on the fact that the pairing of Cork and Schneiderlin worked very well - and particularly so after MP arrived. The pairing has been broken up and the new pairing doesn't seem to be even as good let alone better - AT THE MOMENT! We might see the Victor/Morgan axis giving us an unbroken run of wins in the future, and if so we'll all be delighted. However, I don't think the pro-Cork fan club are being negative.
Agree 100%! VW was poor vs West Ham as a Makulale type holding player, in a game where we didn't even need this type of player. Cork would have given us more creativity in the middle.
This is a really interesting point. I said to my mate at HT that I thought Wanyama was giving the ball away too much but I thought he really improved second half and the team as a whole started to click a lot more. Osvaldo, for me, is a class act and I am confident that he will start scoring really soon. Lovren was superb yesterday I thought and I agree with what everyone else is saying. But..... (and back to the point above)... The top sides in this league can change the game to break down defensive teams like West Ham and for me, they do this with pace, in particular in midfield. An example of this was Man City's goal against us last season. I don't think more than 5 or 6 seconds went by from the time they gained possession (from a really bad corner!) to the ball being in the back of the net. Watching Bayern Munich play is a great example patient pressing play but with pace when it's needed. I think a top 4 club would have broken down a very ugly West Ham performance yesterday. Having said all that, if Osvaldo's chance had gone in, i think we might have gone on to win comfortably as this would have forced them to play which would have created more space for us to do the same.
I'm actually quite pleased with all our signings. Think Big Vic has done ok, Lovren has settled instantly and done nothing wrong yet so we are comparing our new signings and he has set a high standard. He will make mistakes too and Wanyama will improve. Cork and Wanyama are very different players, what I will say is we look like we miss his work rate and agility. Wanyama is a midfield enforcer- something we all agreed we were crying out for last year. I'll also repeat what I said elsewhere- he can shoot from distance, cork doesn't. I'm for sticking with Vic for the forseeable unless he really starts playing badly. We need a stable CM pairing, the less unnecessary changes the better. Its a tough break for Cork but that's the way of the world.
Liverpool, Arsenal or Tottenham just to name a few..............City when they put their mind to it. I don't know how they are doing it, have had no opportunity to study their methods in depth. It does appear that their signings seem to have blended in straight away and have hit the ground running. Clearly some of ours are slow starters and perhaps others just plain slow. For me the team are not quite gelling...whether it is quality or quantity I would not hazard a guess. It is early days though perhaps.
For all my moaning and pessimism I actually though the opposite yesterday. At half time Poch seemed to change the roles of Morgan and Victor and instantly they weren't bumping into each other and standing on each other's toes. Honestly thought we were going to smash the hammers in that second half. In the end it was closer to the second half away at ManU last year where we were like the men against boys without scoring. Notas good a performance as against Man U but was the first sign so far that the team was starting to gel. Strangely enough I thought we were better before the substitutions were made. I say strange because I thought Adam and Jay were doing OK albeit struggling with the wet ball. Nothing special but doing OK. Killer was when Clyne went over to Shaw's side. He was good there the few games he played last season but that was with Adam on the left (if I remember correctly.) Lovren has become one of the buys of the season in my eyes. One moment where we cleared for a corner at the end, he gave a look as if he was seeing who had seen him make a mistake. lol. Wanyama is so-so but then he is in an area where he is having to prove himself after last season's pairing with Cork Osvaldo looked quite slow and sometimes startled against Norwich but yesterday in the second half especially started to look like he was realising what the Prem is about and really did look like he can get into it.
