Interesting OP and some varied responses. Until recently I took a sabbatical from this site earlier in the Summer as people were starting to bitch and moan about a lack of credible transfer activity and people clearly weren't taking the time to read into articles or have the patience for other posters opinions being different from theirs. Whichever way you look at the OP, its plain and simply lazy armchair journalism to write that none of the facts are debate worthy and that its to soon to have an opinion. Having the pleasure of working in Southampton and getting to chew the fat with many fans on a daily basis sine that bizarre and snowy day in January when NA was relieved of his duties (always an odd phrase-I'm pretty sure Nigel could have coped with not being relieved) I think its fair to ask how far we have come, although I do concede that its a touch early to decide anything too much, but as that was never the point of the OP, Ill continue anyway. Leaving my opinions on NAs sacking to one side, I think MP is an all round better fit for the role of the Saints manager. Although a fan of NA, I really think he struggled with the whole concept of the 4-3-3 notion, and although perfectly reasonable questions were asked of him about his and his players struggles to adapt, he never really came up with an answer verbally or on the field of play. Since his arrival, NC has looked towards Europe with the same hunger that Abramovich had for the Champions League, and I think that NAs dismissal came as much down to not being fluent in attacking football in a European way as anything else. Couple this with the fact that we would be very unlikely to have seen NA smiling alongside Lovren, Wanyama and Osvaldo in a press call just after their signings because as nice as he was, he didn't or doesn't have that pull yet. MP has bought us a very unique pressing game that statistically has opened quite a few peoples eyes. The only thing that was really missing from the team was a solid midfielder (not just defensive or attacking) and another credible attacking option. Between January and the end of the season I think a combination of NAs influence and MPs tactical awareness was what kept us up. I dont think NA alone would have had enough in his locker for us to keep our head above water, regardless of how much I liked him as a person. On the signings front, there have been a few random ones in the last year and a bit, and despite the OP stating that Veggard Forren's transfer was the strangest, I would beg to disagree and say that Gastons signing was more bizarre. I will never knock a player without reason, but last year at the West Ham game at home, he struggled to take a corner or cross a ball. £15 million quid or there abouts and he cant cross a ball..........that to me is worrying in a big way, end of story. There have been too many balls given away, too many missed passes, too many shots off target and not enough signs of coming good to justify either his price tag or appearances so far. An expensive mistake in my opinion, and Ill get ready for being criticized for my opinions on that one!! As I think I read on here from someone else, MP hasnt used typical wingers a lot in the past at other clubs, so not a massive surprise that JP wasnt replaced, even though someone has mentioned a replacement may have been lined up. Although I think he was sometimes a good impact player, something still didnt seem quite right with JP in my eyes, and whilst I know his move was non football related, I wasnt that sad to see him go. JWPs inclusion over others has drawn its critics and Im inclined to agree partially. I think he will be good, he just needs to learn his best position. He seems a cross between Chaplow and Ormerod at the moment and I think loan spell in the Championship would do him wonders. Wanyama has proven-ish pedigree and looks a very good signing, I think we have to learn the best combination or way that he and others can best be used. Lovren seems to have slotted straight in, and Osvaldo needs a bit more time to work out his best position/partnership but looks good if not a little fiery! Something we have missed over the years. Personally, I think the club and the team is in a period of flux. The last 3-4 years of massive energy, money and success has been about getting and staying in the PL. We were a little club in a big league when relegation and financial mismanagement and catastrophe struck taking us to being small and almost nothing again. I think we are struggling to establish who we really are at the moment, we are no longer a selling club, we have money in the bank and we have a very promising set of players that on paper will be very good. I still think it is right to question the direction we have and are taking though. I look around at all the progress we have made as a club off the pitch and totally understand fans frustration that the progress on the pitch hasn't quite kept the same pace in some peoples eyes, but I guess that is the beauty of the game. I think the point at which we stand now is that the next 10 games will shape our season. I have everything crossed that we build momentum every game, the January window opens and closes without any real issues for us, the squad remains settled the manager remains calm and we finish about 10th ish. Next season is the big one for Saints as I see it.
I think that people were a little bit more overwhelmed over our transfers than how much of an impact they'll have. They're all really good players, and Lovren has done better than he was expected to, but Wanyama was replacing Cork so isn't a huge improvement and breaking up a great partnership, and Osvaldo may force Rickie to play behind him and restricting Ramirez' chances of getting into the first team, or even push Rickie to the bench (although he hasn't been on great form, he needs game time to improve and he got frustrated under Adkins when he wasn't playing entire matches.). I think if we had bought a decent winger (regardless of whether Puncheon stayed or went) then I think that would have been a huge improvement as none of our wingers are great, so much so that Rodriguez often plays there out of position. A CB would have made quite a big difference to our defence as I think that Fonte, Yoshida and Lovren are all competent but none are brilliant, but our defence is actually good. Teams like Norwich have bought a lot of good players for an amount not too far off our spending. We've only bought a few but have spent a lot more money on average per player, meaning the players we have bought have higher expectations. We have kept our squad together, however (with the exception of Puncheon).
May I just say, this is the difference between us and SaintsWeb. Despite disagreement, posts are reasoned and respected without tiresome agendas or slanging matches.
What an indepth and sensible post, to which I agree with in main. This is the sort of response I was looking for - I want to gage supporters true feelings and if it's that we're doing good enough or brilliant or terrible then that's all fine with me. Everyone is entitled to their opinion and it's opinions and debate that I was looking to stimulate and have managed to do so... I agree fully that MP is more suited to the direction that we seem to now want to take with what seems to be a more continental approach and that the signings made would certainly have been different if NA was still in the hotseat, so bearing in mind that I'm happy with the signings its fair to say that whilst some think I am pessimistic about MP this is not the case as we wouldn't be have players like this in our team if NA was here. I hope that this continental approach doesn't mean that it will be at the detriment to our home grown style that got us back up. With the exception of J-Rod and Clyney most of our signings in the last 18 months have been foreign imports and it is that and the fact that some of them are coming in for BIG $ and probably the highest earners on our books that worries me that it could upset the applecart of the core of quality English players that we have. Afterall it's quite conceivable that if we did have a good season then Lambert may not be alone in the England setup and the likes of Shaw, Clyne, J-Rod, Adam and dare I say Cork could be around the squad. A big season is needed by Gaston this year, as is the other big signings really I guess. I'd hate to see us wasting money on players who are only here for just that - I remind people often that just because we're spending a lot on them doesn't mean their any good. Anyone remember Bosko Balaban...? If you do it's cos he was an expensive failure for Villa and if you don't it's because he was an expensive failure for Villa. Alberto Aquilani anyone...? Steve Marlet...? We've already had this with Mayuka it would seem & Forren and I just hope that Gaston somewhere has more in him than what he's shown so far or we stand to lose a fair few quid. So.... Most posters have said this is too early, and by all means I may post again in ten games time, when we have a better idea of how the season is shaped for us, but in the meantime I think it's fair to have an opinion on where we're at, although I do hasten to add that my oppinion I openly admit is pretty clueless - its more questions of where we are because I really don't know which Saints is going to turn up - the one that disposed of Chelsea, City, Liverpool so easily last year and the one that took Man U all the way at Old Trafford, dominated possesion in masses of games with a high temper and pressing game or the lack luster and out of ideas side that seems to turn up when we are expected to roll teams over. Perhaps the key is the not in style but in motivation... Hopefully that starts tomorrow... My prediction 2-0 Saints. Adam and Pablo. ;-)
Yeah I agree, although I get very frustrated with some threads that go completely off topic with people having a go at eachother - Take the Transfer RUmour thread for example - probably about 50% is people not posting about rumours or thoughts on targets its about niggling. Winds me right up. Just want to hear peoples opinions on the OP - if it's different to mine then that's fine, as long as the points are justified. That's enough of that now Beefy #notonmythreadplease. On second thoughts I'm not starting on a bloke called Beefy lol
Well you called it! That game you cite was very windy I recall. Those corners and free-kicks looked absolutely dreadful on TV, because you couldn't see the wind. Having said that I will agree that Ramirez hasn't reached his potential with us, yet, But he has clearly contributed a lot more than Forren! I think he's shown recently that he's coming into some form so it will be interesting to see the impact he has in the coming weeks. And he was only £12m I have to say that hasn't exactly been my experience recently, but this thread has restored some faith.
Hmmm.... I remember the West Ham game well, as it was one of the worst games I've seen live probably ever.... It wasn't a classic for many reasons..... But I'd certainly expect a 12 million pound player to be able to kick a dead ball....!! In all fairness to him, I've not seen him that much this season.... So couldn't comment on his recent performances.... I hope he gets better quickly.....!!
His goal in the West Ham game was the only good thing he did! He looked good against Sunderland and reckon he'll start on the wing.
If a poster feels that he'd like to comment briefly on a thread and chooses not to write an essay, it is not "lazy journalism". I have re-read this thread again, all of it, and there are some valid discussion points and nick Obee himself called for debate on his OP, yet it feels as if one is not allowed to have a brief disagreement in their own interpretation of the post. In the spirit of good forum sport, I'm going to pick up on some points for debate: SaintHarry talks of lazy journalism, yet then chooses to only use last season's West Ham game as his (written) derision of Ramirez He also suggests a spell in the championship on loan for JWP. 100% disagree as he is doing well in the Premier League (as he did at the start of last season), I was in fact disappointed that Nick Obee chose to ignore this part having commented in his post that he is concerned that the continental approach could be to the "detriment" of our home grown players - perhaps too wrapped up in the quality of the indepth and sensible post smiley It's saintharry's last paragraph that bemuses me though. "I still think it is right to question the direction we have and are taking though. I look around at all the progress we have made as a club off the pitch and totally understand fans frustration that the progress on the pitch hasn't quite kept the same pace in some peoples eyes, but I guess that is the beauty of the game. I think the point at which we stand now is that the next 10 games will shape our season. I have everything crossed that we build momentum every game, the January window opens and closes without any real issues for us, the squad remains settled the manager remains calm and we finish about 10th ish. Next season is the big one for Saints as I see it." How has the progress on the pitch not kept pace? This is why I think it's too soon for this debate.If this is so, then it can only be because expectation was too high. We have played 3 games, have four points and played well in those games (not for 90 minutes, but certainly in patches played well - anyone expecting 90 minutes domination doesn't understand football). If we had played exactly the same against Sunderland as we did, and Jayrod's goal had stood and we'd won one nil, the game would hardly get a mention. This is the central point for me - expectation. We are three games into a season, following one which we finished 14th in our first season back in the Premier league. This season is the start of MPs reign, with full pre-season and 'his' signings and we are sat 10th (at start of weekend) in the league (though that's irrelevant really as I wait for ten games to look) and we have 4 points from teams we didn't take that off last year ... sounds like a little progress. Everything written may be spot-on, but we won't know that for another 7-10 games. That is why I think it's too soon. I also think people over-look other teams and how they set themselves out for a game and for a season, when considering their expectations of Saints. This is my opinion; it's not lazy, it's just what I think. This has been a little incoherent in flow as I am rushing before going out for a day of football, but I didn't want to be chastised for a one liner in response.
Pochettino has made a few glaring errors, starting fox ahead of clyne when clyne had had better match preparation and subbing lallana when he was the most threatening twice in a row is poor management. He's clearly a top manager and with two premier strikers in Osvaldo and Lambert we will start to string some wins together. Its a slight worry that he hasn't got the strike force working at all but Lambert may have been injured las season, Rodriguez is a poor finisher, and Osvaldo has just come in so there is massive room for improvement up front. With an in form strike force properly fed by lallana and ramirez we will strike up top 6 form and challenge for europe this season. I didn't really expect us to be at our best early doors with pochettino's poor history against defensive teams and a new spine but we looked brilliant against west brom for 25 minutes and haven't been that poor in the other 2 games.
Sometimes managers sub people because they are hoping to add fresh legs to the mix...Mauricio couldn't then put Lallana back on. He made a decision in good faith....too early to say it made him a bad manager. I'm almost certain that he wouldn't play Fox for Clyne if he didn't have to...more likely that Clyne was nearly fit, but would only be used in desperation. Hopefully, that caution will pay off and Nat is back and on song today.
Given Clyne played 45 minutes at left back against Sunderland then the full 90 against Barnsley whereas fox had only played 90 minutes against barnsley you can safely say that Clyne was better prepared. And CLyne proved last year to be extremly fit in any case, it was a baffling decision as was pulling lallana off who was the only player to threaten from open play, he hit the post and could easily have won a penalty. He was at his best when he was subbed and didn't look like he was tiring. I said he was a top manager but so far has made a few glaring errors, he even admitted to the lallana error. It has probably cost us a few points which don't lose their importance as the season progresses.
Fair and valid points FLT, and I'll try and address these. Sadly, I don't have the capacity to attend as many games as I would like to. So much of me wants to refer to televised games (courtesy of the Royal Oak) but I don't think it's 100% fair to just use this when commenting on a player like Gastons performance. The 2 games I'm thinking most of are Sunderland and west ham, both of which were played in less than clever conditions. Nonetheless, this combined with some evidence from tv coverage and "informed" opinions fromRadio Solent presenters leads me to be worried that a 12 million pound footballer struggles with some pretty basic skills. He has shown flashes of brilliance, but personally,I'd expect much more by now. As far as commenting on people's posts go, my comment comes from the fact people log on and read only to dismiss the OP out of hand as doom mongering or that the questions can't be asked or debate be stimulated. As for JWP loan, I'm not saying that he should go on loan because he is playing badly. The opposite if anything. I just think he needs to be able to competitively hone his role as an attacking box to box midfielder- in my opinion, this would be better served in a high end championship team where he starts and finishes each game or a lot at least. As far as the team keeping pace on the pitch. It's not my opinion that they haven't. If I expressed that wrong I apologise. I vividly remember those dark days a few years ago pre-takeover when it was nothing but woeful. I think the players and everything has improved... It's just the consistency of results that is needed.
He admitted to the lallana error in saying that all manager's make mistakes that they regret, these weren't his actual words but were clearly the sentiment. At Saintharry, I thought JWP would benefit from going on loan preseason but given that he is of an ability to play in the premier league I think we should keep him for the team's benefit but also like schneiderlin I feel he might actually be better suited to the prem and could struggle in the championship. Particularly when he hasn't proven to be much more than a one dimensional winger, or a neat and tidy cdm. To add to this he was shown up defensively against norwich and this would probably be exacerbated in a more physical league. I would put him on par with davis atm, and he should get a reasonable amount of games and help pick up some more points for us whereas if he went out on loan he might not develop much more than here and we would miss out on his setpiece capabilities and crossing which have proven to be effective.
Maybe you can point me to where he said this, as all I can find is him justifying the decision by saying that Ramirez is a creative player as well and he wanted to get fresh legs on.
Good morning PTF . It's posted by me on the 4th page of this thread . It was a quote in the Sunday observer . http://www.not606.com/showthread.php/227283-Tactical-analysis/page4
